Jtod, I love the idea of enlightenment and the establishment of the "real self," especially in the aftermath of major loss and reversal. In Tony's case I fear that the existential mission of making meaning out of loss is just too new and tenuous a task. Granted, he is now enscripted into this new way of being, but it feels to me that this is also act conciliation for Tony; a contract of quid pro quo (sort of like Earl's karmic philosophical stance of if you are "good," good things will happen...). If a catastropic loss is about to occur, I feel that Tony will just not have the sufficient build-up of resilience or tolerance for resolution necessary for "going on" in life. However, I hope I am wrong.

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OE,

I agree enlightenment and fulfilling the Finnerty wish is a VERY, VERY tall order for Tony. But, lets play this out. Someone very close to Tony dies tragically. As has been suggested, Tony is very likely to decompensate. I agree with your thesis - first anger then severe depression. He hits rock bottom. But, then what? Does he commit suicide despite having 2/3 of his family members looking to him for strength and leadership. I have a hard time seeing Tony not being there for them and taking his own life. I also have a hard time seeing Tony floundering in a prolonged depressive episode while his family suffers as well. So, I come back to an earlier thought of could Tony rebound and actually grow from this tragedy. For some reason, and I really don't have much to go on here despite Tony's resilience from years of abusive parenting, but I think he can. Much like a substance abuser who loses everything has the capacity to get back on trackl, Tony might too. I guess the real question here is does DC think he can or does he want him to.

Jtod

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<blockquote>Quote:<hr>But, perhaps we will see him play with more imagery from the Godfather, this season.<hr></blockquote>

I see your point jay, and we do see a lot of "Godfather" type imagery. The next episode looks to be at a carnival or festival, sound familiar too? Whether DC means it or not, I see what you mean.

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maybe melfi is just wrong?does she know about tonys restrengthened relationship to carmella?i also got a feeling in the past that she doesnt really like carmella anyways, for one reason or another...*smirk*.
i still dont really see much of a change for the family, tony has shown in the past, before he was shot, that he has a heart, carmella basically has said this season that the mafia business is ok with her and tony right now is getting money where he can...so where is the change coming?
a decompensation through the death of carmella could of course happen anytime, as it could have happened in the past.
through the wounding tony is getting a bit more silent and is focusing more on his basic worths, but i dont see him leaving the mafia right now.maybe one day he will run with his family because he is getting older and tired of the danger.
i would rather see an 'explosion' than a decompensation, for example through the whole vito situation; but then again tony has said to phil that they basically have an agreement (about vito dying), so somehow tony seems to sh*t on everything it seems, unless he doesnt hold that agreement once vito is tracked down.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge ... rurusch</A> at: 5/5/06 1:01 pm

I have nothing psychological to add, but the reading of this great thread makes me think of Carm telling Melfi how she got rid of all the guns in the house, and how that might prove to have been an unwise move.


"Pain is the cleanser!" - Ned Flanders </p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>makes me think of Carm telling Melfi how she got rid of all the guns in the house, and how that might prove to have been an unwise move.<hr></blockquote>

I'm more curious about what happened to the hand grenade than the guns!

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You know, I was re-watching season five recently, and realized that the hand grenade is (or was) actually still there - it was just shifted on top of a can or something.

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DH, I'm actually talking about what happened to it in view of Carmela's revelation in season 6 that she immediately got rid of all the "guns" after the shooting. That grenade was in the cabinet along with the automatic rifle, so I'm wondering if she removed it, too. I'm one of those people that have been waiting for that grenade to "go off", literally or figuratively, ever since they focussed on it in those couple of shots in season 5.:-)

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I'm bumping this thread and moving it (at least temporarily) to the speculation forum because of a comment that Peter Bogdanovich made in a recent interview. Let me say up front that I don't consider this a spoiler (defined here) because he mentions absolutely nothing about plot or story events and because this is the kind of information that has been casually released by HBO ahead of airing in the past. However those who wish to know absolutely nothing regarding the new season should exit this thread now.

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With that qualification, Bogdanovich commented that his character will appear in at least 2 or 3 episodes of the new season. (Complete interview located here. ) Obviously by this time we know that Kupferberg's only purpose is to serve as a sounding board for Melfi in her assessments/issues with regard to Tony's therapy.

The last time we saw him, IIRC, was in the scene from Johnny Cakes that is the subject of this thread, where Melfi commented that Tony would not engage on the subject of the shooting, would not emote about it, and that it was only a matter of time before he "totally decompensates". (For the official definition of "decompensate" as a term in the psychiatric fields, see the first post in the thread.)

Does Kupferberg's presence in 2 or 3 of only 8 final episodes signal that this "decompensation" is coming? Or, perhaps, could Kupferberg be on the canvas because Melfi finally hears something in therapy that she feels bound to report yet is afraid to do so? Or could there be some storyline whereby she is subpoenaed and must decide whether the privilege covers the matters about which she is questioned?

I suppose any of these are possibilities, and there are undoubtedly many others . . . including the possibility that I'm making way too much out of Kupferberg being in a few of the last episodes. But the scene with him in Johnny Cakes felt distinctly like foreshadowing to me, particularly because there have been other signals that Tony might have a real breakthrough in therapy before the series ends.

His coma ER doctor told him to "talk to his doctors back home" about his "Alzheimers", which I took to mean he should actually talk to Melfi (honestly) about the disease in his character and behavior, about the things that make him like his uncle, about the things that cause him to feel "lost" and like he doesn't even know who he really is.

In Cold Cuts, where again the issues of self-improvement and change are front and center, Melfi quotes part of the Yeats poem "The Second Coming":[INDENT]The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
[/INDENT]It bears a striking resemblance to the definition of "decompensate".

If, like me, you believe that when Tony kept the briefcase and refused to enter the house, he made a choice to live as Kevin Finnerty with all attendant "baggage" (a man sued by his own conscience to take responsibility for his actions and true identity), then it seems only a matter of time before the charade ends, before the "center can no longer hold" and Tony has to confront in the sobriety of life the dual identity he confronted literally at the doorstep of death.

I suppose in Tony's case, decompensation could take the form of an extreme binge of violence. But I think it could also take the form of something far more out of character -- an outpouring of truth; an emotional confession; even a suicide attempt (as Tony definitely revealed suicidal thoughts in season 1 in the depths of his worst depression).

Then there's the whole continuing issue of whether the name "Soprano" portends a development where Tony might abandon his macho, stoic, Gary Cooper self image and honestly introspect and communicate his feelings.

Anyone care to add to the speculation?

Well, compared to the amount of screen time he had in the previous 12 eps, it would tend to lead to the idea that Melfi would lean on him as she tried to stear Tony through a decompensation of some sort. That would of course make complete sense. Though I also wonder if it's not also indicative of Chase wishing to give some more of the other players a chance to "shine" before the whole thing ends. Perhaps a little of both. I will say I am pleased to hear he will be in so many eps as he is a wonderful character and we've not seen him enough lately.

So too with Neal Mink, but that's a whole other story.