Junior: 'Manus manum lavat ...'

Junior, Junior, Junior ...

I'm starting to feel as if Jr. is the missing link to the entire Sopranos series. What are we to make of his role in the last 12 episodes? (or lack thereof?)

So he sent Bobby and his family money for Xmas? How?

When Bobby confronts him about shooting Tony, instead of denying it (as I would expect) he mentions a conspiracy. Is he referring to Livia's hit on Tony in S1? Meaning that he's recalling an actual event correctly, just not putting it in the right context?

I think it's not uncommon in some dementia patients to remember something that occured decades ago clear as day, and believe the event just took place.

I realize the Livia-ordered hit wasn't THAT long ago, but it does make sense that it would have made a deep, deep impression on Jr., and thus still be floating around his consciousness despite his progressing dementia.

This also maybe would explain why at times Jr. seems completely out of it, and other times totally on the ball.

And what are we to make of Jr. giving the orderly the envelope meant for Bobby and saying 'one hand washes the other' (or `manus manum lavat' in Latin)

we've had other references to 'washing away' (sins?), even as recently as last week during Carm's Paris trip.

And maybe there were elements of this notion when Tony sat at Phil's bedside, holding his hand and once again spouting his belief that 'there's enough for all of us' ...?

side note: the 'one hand washes another' quote is from the Roman historian Seneca the Elder, who was related to Claudius of 'I, Claudius' fame.
I need to brush up on my Roman history, but I believe Seneca hated Claudius and considered him unsuitable to become emperor.

I'm not saying this is a perfect analogy (i.e Tony = Claudius) but just that it's interesting, especially since Chase himself has said that the 'I, Claudius' connection didn't escape him when he named 'Livia.'

Maybe someone more up to speed on their Roman history can add some insights.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge ... daMaria</A> at: 6/5/06 11:09 am

Re: Junior: 'Manus manum lavat ...'

Is there a connection between Uncle Junior and Tony we do NOT know about yet? What about him and Livia, anything there or am I stretching to find something?

He has got to play a role in tying this all together, don't you think? I have always felt for awhile now the show will not end til Tony deals with the issues he has with Livia and with the shooting from Junior.........

I also miss his part!



Re: Junior: 'Manus manum lavat ...'

It was interesting that Junior said something about how he didn't act alone, or something like that. I guess it was just a reference to the JFK investigation put in there to illustrate how out of it Junior is.

I don't see how anyone could have been working with him to shoot Tony. Unless Janice somehow told him that Tony was secretly working against him with Pussy Malenga, so June should pretend to be nuts and then shoot Tony. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

I just want Janice to be behind the whole thing, even though she wasn't.


Junior, Junior, Junior!

I am going to reveal something about myself that I think most people will find ridiculous. But, here goes:

I have always despised Junior (the character) and found he was completely unnecessary to the show. I always found him to be an old fool who was largely irrelevant to the plot line and was amazed that he could accomplish any serious actions - such as an attempted murder of Tony. So, I was quite happy that he did not appear (hardly at all) during this season. I didn't mind at all. I especially detested his singing.

Oh dear. Oh dear. While writing this, I felt as if a little bird had perched on my shoulder and was warning me, "You will be sorry for writing this. Everyone here will hate you now!"

Well, the old saying, "Absense makes the heart grow fonder" surely did apply to me last night. I don't know why we saw almost nothing of Junior this season. Presumably Dominic Chianese had some disease that prevented him from working? I certainly hope not. Alternatively, is it possible Dominic is working on some other project? Or perhaps he had a quarrel with the producers?

When seeing Junior last night, I truly missed his presence this season and wished that he had taken a larger role. In fact, I had the feeling that many of the problems that exist in the Sopranos family (both the blood family and the OC family) could be resolved with Junior's presence. This is not to say he has some wisdom and could actively do something to solve these problems. But, that his presence would act as a catalyst and cause events to go forward ("to transpire") in such a way that other people or events would expire (or transpire) and the story line would become a lot more enjoyable.

I don't know why. It's just a hunch, I guess. But I really miss the geezer. Hmm ... maybe it has something to do with his golf game or his whistling through the wheat field?

Upon re-reading EdaMarie's post, I guess that I am echoing much of what she said. But I don't care. I hope we will see a lot more of him in the next eight episodes - even if it means spending a lot more time on his subplot - just like we did with Vito.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge ... plishak</A> at: 6/5/06 3:42 pm

Can you explain this a little?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>the show will not end til Tony deals with the issues he has with Livia and with the shooting from Junior...<hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that Tony must deal with his being shot by Junior?

If so, I'd appreciate if you could explain how? Do you mean that Tony should either forgive Junior or kill him? Or are you saying that it's no good to leave the matter unresolved by refusing to speak with Junior and cutting off all ties with him?

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge ... plishak</A> at: 6/5/06 4:19 pm

Re: Can you explain this a little?

Sure, no problem......My take (again it is just an angle) is the writers have made it very obvious Tony teeters on change and then back to the old Tony. He speaks of everyday being a gift and so on but the one thing he will not speak about is Junior shooting him in Episode one. It is just a hunch but going back to Chase saying that something from season one will come back to need wrap up, I feel things are connected. The first shooting, Tony forgave Uncle Junior but never Livia. Now, a basically senile Uncle Jun mistakes (apparently) Tony for Pussy Malenga, yet nothing from T.

It just appears as though things have to come full circle for this to have any real closure. Now, what is that closure my friend, I have no idea.

He also never resolved the issues with his mother and all the dark-haired goomars. I feel they will play out in the final 8.


Re: Can you explain this a little?

I'm happy to hear that others have missed Jr. as much as I have.

so I have a feeling I'm off on this one, but here it goes: does anyone else think it's odd (even unrealistic) that NO character has brought up, even just in passing, that Jr. perhaps didn't know what he was doing when he shot Tony?

Please, writers! I need to be hit over the head on this one ... what does Tony really think about the shooting? does he REALLY believe Jr. intentionally shot him? he truly has no doubts, given Jr.'s condition? and noone cares that Jr. is holed up in an asylum, alone on xmas? even after all those years of family dinners!?!

sorry for rambling. I just can't get past this.

separately, I've never been in the camp that says Jr. is faking. but the past couple Jr. sightings have been a bit suspicious.
Jr. apparently is together enough to know that Xmas is coming, and to send Bobby a gift in advance. some people point to Jr. saying 'Karen' as proof that he's out of it. but IMHO it's not that unusual for an older person to mess up a name like that - it doesn't necessarily mean that he's 100% senile.

It seems odd we didn't get more scenes with Jr. meeting with his doctors and/or lawyer. also, i thought for sure we'd get to see Tony/Janice/Barbara dealing with Jr. aftermath (i.e. selling his house and other estate issues.)

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