Re: Carmela and Rosalie

Sheila and Fly

That's solid advise from both of you. I use Hotmail or Word before I post here Sheila. It was just the nature of that post. I was linking a couple pics and websites regarding the rest of the art work from the episode. I'm blaming myself on this one. I had the post up and was going back to edit a bad link. Not sure where things went wrong, but Fly your right furious is the word.<img src= ALT=":lol">

The more I read about Abelard and Heloise the more I'm agreeing with your theory of it being foreshadowing Fly. What an interesting story! I knew very little about them until research done following "Cold Stones." Here are some links members might enjoy.

Perhaps the long separation of A. And H. warns of a possible separation of Tony and Carmela. Maybe prison? Remember Tony's dream of losing his Penis in Season 1? Not quite as bad as having your lover's uncle pay someone to cut it off but it's another interesting connection. I tend to look to much in to things but could this be telling us of a possible prison sentence for Tony? Loss of his family and his existing sex life could be a symbolic castration.

Or maybe it's just telling us of Carm's longing for romantic love? Her conversation with Melfi in "Join the Club" suggested she is having second thoughts about her feelings towards Tony. The situations with Furio and Father Intintola have shown us that as well.

"Even during the celebration of Mass, when our prayers should be purer, lewd visions of those pleasures take such a hold upon my unhappy soul that my thoughts are on their wantonness instead of on prayers." Heloise, in a letter to Abelard. This reminds me of Carm's relationship with Father Intintola.

Edit: WOW. Maybe I'm on crack but read this poem by Alexander Pope and tell me it didn't influence the writers. I'm thinking this is what the episode's title is derived from.

An outtake of "Eloisa to Abelard" by Alexander Pope

How happy is the blameless vestal's lot!
The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind!
Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;
Labour and rest, that equal periods keep;
"Obedient slumbers that can wake and weep;"
Desires compos'd, affections ever ev'n,
Tears that delight, and sighs that waft to Heav'n.
Grace shines around her with serenest beams,
And whisp'ring angels prompt her golden dreams.
For her th' unfading rose of Eden blooms,
And wings of seraphs shed divine perfumes,
For her the Spouse prepares the bridal ring,
For her white virgins hymeneals sing,
To sounds of heav'nly harps she dies away,
And melts in visions of eternal day.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... store>Pork Store</A> at: 5/29/06 8:39 am

Re: Carmela and Rosalie

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Just remember not to ever hit "back" on the browser. It spells doom at EZ board, although some other forums do allow that. <hr></blockquote>

Anyone who has done this has my sincere sympathy.

EZ board has several severe restrictions and limitation. Their EZ inbox system for sending/receiving private messages is one example. Imagine a new user sends a private message to someone and only after it's sent do they learn the system does not keep a copy of their message on record.

The lack of a spell checker is also a very sad omission.

Whenever I want to make a post of length 2 or 3 paragraphs or more, I prepare the text in an editor or MS Word so that I can spell check it first. In that way, I have it saved in case EZ board mangles it.


Re: The Paris Trip: Carmela's "Join the Club"

Hi Pork Store- you have amazing insights and pix. Thnx for pointing out Napolean's Tomb.

ima brand new member, so please forgive tardy reply to post regarding napolean's tomb in background when Carmella and Ro are on the bridge. I believe it was also in the distance when they first arrived in Paris, set against middle-eastern sounding music showing us the mix of cultures now there, taxi-drivers, etc. A hint of something to come? Later from the bridge, the Tomb is starkly more obvious.

Did anyone notice that when Ro and Carmella are about to eat at the cafe, Carm sort of affectionately admonishes Ro to get in tune with the Paris time-difference by coordinating schedules, and then Ro snaps kiddingly back at her, saying: "o.k. Napolean!...", afterwhich Carm backs off and they move on. Could be ominous.

The whole Napolean theme has been, too me, an underlying theme in some aspects of the whole show, ie parallels with Tony as sometimes the benevolent (malevolent?)dictator of his world, setting the Law, as Napolean first created "Napoleanic Law", forever setting a standard for western law as it still exists.

Napolean was for a time also King of Italy concurrently while Emporer of France, . He (per wikipedia, etc.) was originally of minor Italian nobility, yet flourished in France. The powerful and explosive relationship he had with his empress Josephine (both having affairs but staying glued to one another) is legendary and infamous, and seems to parallel Tony and Carm in a way. Then there was the Pie-'O-My horse portrait that Paulie had altered-- Tony looked distinctly Napoleanic. And i could swear he does a bit of the classic hand tuck into his suit breast pocket that is characteristically Napolean-like when he is triumphantly walking away from AJ after smashing the SUV windshield -victorious while taking back the reins on an out-of-control family crisis of leadership and parenting while Carm's outta town. And getting back to a role-reversal idea of Carm as "Napolean" (Josephine and Napolean were considered practically inseparable, and Nap thought of Josephine as the Head of His Army), Tony made that curious point in Dr. Melfi's office about Carm being from a family of "little people", which he found annoying. And of course people who are acting beyond their given boundaries of authority are often accused of being "Little Napoleans"(even though now its known that Napolean wasn't really that short as legend has it...)

And finally- i'm pretty sure thats the Arc de Triomphe- built by Napolean- that the Nazis are marching thru in the History Channel t.v. spot that Tony alerts carm to while they're talking in the kitchen before she leaves. Later, when he responds to her phone call from Paris, he answers: "is Paris burning?" - the title of the classic 60's film about the successful resistance that prevented those same invaders from burning down that monument before they left Paris.

It all has a ring of the theme of the Italians relationship to the French whether for good or bad thruout history (including back to the Roman baths and jewelry carm admired). And since Carm perceived Paris as Heaven for dream-Ade, i can't help but think there is more to this Paris trip that Chase has in mind for us to be prepared for. Maybe its all a set up for us to wonder where Carm will disappear to if she ever does go missing to Witness Protection or Wherever Land....


Re: The Paris Trip: Carmela's "Join the Club"

Welcome to the Lounge Badabellisima; excellent first post. It was wonderful that you were able to tie up all of these Naopleonic "loose end" into a clear reflection of the lives and times of Tony and Carmella. You should get a lot of feedback on this post since it raises a whole new avenue of Sopranos exploration I have not encountered before. Well done! Keep Posting.


Re: The Paris Trip: Carmela's "Join the Club"

thnx billymac- i'm hoping there are people out there that know alot more about the Napolen stuff and will chime in-- i am only just now looking more into the history.

btw, i am a huge fan of Guerlain perfume. Most people may be familiar with the scent Shalimar. Guerlain is very famous for primarily its custom perfumes, not really so much the cosmetic side of things. As one of the oldest parfumeries in France, or anywhere, they originally made extraordinarily expensive custom scents for nobility and the very wealthy, starting with making "Imperiale" for the wife (empress) of Napolean III, nephew of the 1st. It has a beautiful scent which includes oranges (oranges & eggs again?)

If Carmella was partaking of that store's exquisite wares in a need to cover up a sense of malodeur, i am wondering what parallels that may have also to another interesting post comparing AJ's only recent work accomplishment of washing out the trash cans (washing away odor) with Carm's reflections on everything washing away in Paris. Also, that post describes that trashcan washing as possibly hinting at AJ's first entry into the 'waste management" side of the family worklife. The sins of the fathers (and mothers) are often left upon the shoulders of the offspring to clean up- its the way of the world so-to-speak, and offers a sort of redemptive quality to AJ finding a way to contribute to the unfortunate legacy he inherits from his forebears. We all hope our children will do better or accomplish more in the next generation, but they still have the tools as well as hinderences that they get from the current generation to accomplish that task. Carm's trip to Paris possibly sets up the circumstances to allow not just her, but us, IMO, the ability to now accept AJ's foray into the dark side of the family business, just as Vito Corleone had to do with a tear in his eye when Michael crossed that line. Both parent and child had to go on a journey and thru crisis to meet eachother on the same playing field. Carm has now let go of her son the boy, released to the authority of his father, and possibly it took the trip to Paris to allow that to happen.

Edit: (that interesting post on AJs entry into the Waste Management biz by washing out the trash cans was from HagensBing1977, in the main thread about general comments)

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... llisima</A> at: 5/30/06 1:30 pm

Re: The Paris Trip: Carmela's "Join the Club"

badabellisima, great first couple of posts there! You make a lot of very interesting and compelling connections with the Napolean history.

I am especially fond of your turn on the symbolism HagensBinf noted of AJ washing down the trash cans. I'm a little less compelled by the idea of it foreshadowing AJ's entry into mob life than by it representing his task of having to wash away the nasty stains and residues that his father's mob life have left on him.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... fisWall</A> at: 5/30/06 8:02 pm

Re: The Paris Trip: Carmela's "Join the Club"

not only is AJ having to wash away nasty stains left on his own self (AJ), but he also has the task of washing away sins and residues off of his parents- not unlike the Son washing the feet of his disciples, or being sacrificed in an untimely crucifixion before the death of his own mother, as in the Pieta statue they observed in Paris: Mary the mother holding her dead son Jesus who died to wash away her sins, too. Carmella has graduated to being moved to tears over the paintings and statues of madonna and (living) Child, to grasping the significance of Mother and (dead) Child. I can't imagine what it would be like to be the mother of a young soldier who volunteered to go fight in WWII and was killed while defending his country and his parents, versus being the mother of a soldier drafted by force by authority figures to an unholy war that still resulted in his/her death. The mother still grieves, but it has to be deeply disturbing if the mother knows the battlefield is inherently not of a noble cause (the battlefield of organized crime). Carm claims she doesn't want this life for her children, but has she been willing to do the extraordinary actions required to break free of it for their sake? maybe its too late...


Re: The Paris Trip: Carmela's "Join the Club"

Badabellisima thanks for your kind words and I loved your posts. Keep it coming.

Some of the stuff from my "lost post." Not that it's much of a loss.<img src= ALT=":lol">

The above link is a 360 shot of Pont Alexander III taken from the direction Carm and Roe are walking towards. As Badabellisima brought up, You can see this area from a distant as Carm gazes out of her cab in the first Paris scene.

The images surrounding Carm as she is at Pont Alexander III:
This is the statue a top the south entrance of the Grand Palais, which Carm and Roe are walking towards. The statue is said to represent the triumphant of harmony over discord.
This is close to Carm's veiw of the Nymphs of the Seine guarding the the French coat of arms. The opposite side of the Bridge are Nymphs guarding the Russian shild. Carm is looking upstream to the east. Possible away from the Western lands of the Seven Souls sequence.

Carm at St. Eustache

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... store>Pork Store</A> at: 5/31/06 11:07 am

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