Re: Episode Review and General Comments

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Did anyone else think it was weird that Chris and Little Carmine got on so well? Their relationship seemed a little too friendly to me. Here's the point: Little Carmine - it's common knowledge he's retarded. So seeing that Chris can get along with/relate to him so easily reflects very poorly on Chris I think. I <hr></blockquote>

I noticed this also. and it struck me that Lil Carmine came off strikingly *better* and more at ease than Chrissie did during the trip. this may be 100% due to the fact that Chris was so off the wagon, although it also could indicate that Lil Carmine isn't *quite* as much of an idiot as Tony and others say he is .. (another hint we have on this front is the simple fact that Lil Carmine is still alive)

don't get me wrong, i don't think he's some kind of mastermind all of the sudden, but the episode humanized him a bit, IMHO

Yes, he misused several words when speaking to Kingsley ..yet other than that he not only handled himself OK, but held Chris back when he started freaking out and going for the loot in the lounge. and I liked how he said 'the ring meets the godfather' instead of 'saw' (the 'saw' thing really makes them sound like goofballs, even though i realize 'saw' made a nice profit)

AND he was pretty smooth in jumping at the opportunity to have his picture taken with Kingsley (the same way a lot of people would) but i definitely didn't have the sense that he would have stalked him like Chris did if he had stayed in california... .and that's another thing, he went back to NY to deal with Rusty's death, and i could be way off, but I got the vibe that he truly went back to console Rusty's wife, etc. I don't think Lil Carmine and Phil will get into it again.
and honestly, if Chris got word that Tony was back in the hospital while out in California, I'm not totally confident that he would rush back right away

ALSO, Lil C was somewhat thoughtful in the beginning about Chris being in AA ...

and this is pretty obvious observation I know but the episode really highlighted how much Chris changes when he's on drugs/drinking. for the most part this season chris has been kind of a drag to watch because he's been so serious (w/exception of the JT stuff ... and even then he was relatively focused)

some people have noted how the eipsode illustrated how much chris doesn't fit into the world of hollywood. but i don't totally buy that and i think it's giving h'wood too much credit (IMO, the episode shows more how the mob and h'wood are alike than different) and chris has shown in the past that he can hold his own on a movie set and with h'wood types. so what if Kingsley isn't into him? a lot of actors, as we saw with jon favreau, would line up for the chance to hang with a true mobster

i think the episode was more revealing in showing just how much chris has repressed, how much pain/denial he's in and how it's coming out in the form of an even more ferocious appetite than usual (trying to fill himself up by grabbing like a 2-year-old at everything in sight (includng the stripper)

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... daMaria</A> at: 4/26/06 9:04 pm

Re: Episode Review and General Comments

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>-Oh! Did anyone catch that GF3 reference? 'and you know I'm gonna eat here until I fall off the chair' I loved it. Meaning of course, 'till he dies - referencing Michael Corleone's ultimate demise. In fact, looked at broadly, it's plausible that it's a subtle clue that Tony's begun to think there may be another possible ending for him then just the two he earlier told Melfi about. I know he said 'dead', but he meant clipped. Now he means a peacefull death...<hr></blockquote>

Nice catch ... always hated that movie and Michael's death scene ... story ends with him alive at the end of 2, as far as I'm concerned.

I agree Tony is hoping for a peaceful death, but if he's going to get clipped at the end, it might as well be at Vesuvio. It would reference real-life mob killings (Gotti killing whoever it was at Sparks in NYC comes to mind) and it would bring the story full circle, since Tony burned down the original Vesuvio to prevent a hit in episode 1. A possible ending, anyway.


Re: Re:Kingsley and Bacall

billymac said... After reading your post I just wanted to make sure that none of my previous comments about Sir Ben or Ms. Bacall were made about them personally, but rather were directed toward the caricatures of themselves played onthe show.

no billy.. i never thought you were making those comments about them personally.. but in other posts i believe some might not have realized that, apart from the cursing, neither Bacall nor Kingsley would ever act that way in real life. that i know of. grins.


Re: Re:Kingsley and Bacall

I finally had time to watch the episode … have been reading all of the great comments this week -- the episode is improved by the thoughtful comments from everyone here. As usual. I feel like I'm missing out not getting to join the inital responses . . . but I'm usually not able to watch until well after.

Artie has always creeped me out. He’s the epitome of the guy you don’t want to talk to who will hit on you like he is the something you really want, except he’s not, and there is no way to tell him that. He won’t get it, he will think you are the problem and turn your non-interest into anger at you. As shown. And perfectly. When Martina said, “you were mean to me” he responds something about helping her get a green card. He needs the upperhand, there is no niceness in him. If it is not helping him, he’s angry and therefore weak. Which then makes him even more repulsive. Which he doesn’t get. He acts like the world owes him something. He shot a bunny and felt good. Perfect moment by Chase.

Still Artie bores me. But I tried to watch his storyline with interest.. I find it lovely that his wife is the one many posts are made about, including being one of the hottest women on the show. Someone mentioned her breasts as a reason to watch – obviously they are made a part of the show. Everyone can see it except him, he seems to pay no attention to her as he should. That is because his life is about his own mindset, and he has a weak, needy foundation. I did smile at his conversation with Tony about the stripper – yes, Tony could fuck her, but Tony also fucked his wife. Wonder if that flickered through Tony’s mind while Arties’s going off on the unfairness of it all.

To the point of the show, it must be Tony’s responses that are important here. And, as pointed out very clearly in previous posts – the episodes are detailing the lives, mis-focuses, regrets, and frustrations of those around him. It is now clear why the season began with the suicide hanging. Gene’s dilemma is everyone’s dilemma. Florida is individually defined. However – Is the answer Tony gave so easily pre-shooting the same answer he would give now? Lovely setup by Chase.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... ofAlice</A> at: 4/27/06 12:44 am

Re: Music at end

I know there have been comments made about the music at the end of the show. Just thought people would like to know that it is "Recuerdos de la Albambra" by Francisco Tarrega (1852-1909). A beautiful piece of music to set the scene for Artie's return to the culinary arts. I believe it was guitarist John Williams' version.


Re: Re:Kingsley and Bacall

MrTaste wrote: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>no billy.. i never thought you were making those comments about them personally.. but in other posts i believe some might not have realized that, apart from the cursing, neither Bacall nor Kingsley would ever act that way in real life. that i know of. grins.<hr></blockquote>

Actually, from what I've read, Ms. Bacall is a real trouper, and that wasn't acting that's just her.

She's appeared at some Friar's Roasts and her language and demeanor has caused some of the male members to actually blush. She's not one for mincing words, and I believe the F-word may be one of them.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Bacall is widely known for her acid tongue and straightforward approach on things. Her tendency to publicly speak out her mind has garnered her a reputation as one of Hollywood's most uncompromising figures, up to the extent that she's been called "bitchy" and "vulgar" by some of her peers. In 2004, she made international headlines by stating her opinion on Nicole Kidman and, later, Tom Cruise.<hr></blockquote>

On another note, did you catch Sir Ben call her Betty when they met at poolside? Her real name is Betty Joan Perske.

"Everything happens for a reason"</p>

Revised Opinion/Kingsley and Bacall

I would like to go on record as having revised my original stance on this episode from "feeling no love" to "guarded love." My shift results from having rewatched several times, and a closer examination of Artie's emergence. Much has been said about the aesthetically absorbing scene of Artie toward episode's close in which he is literally and figuratively cookin' on the front burner: the music, the ingredients, his attitude were just beyond satisfying. The fact that he was able (hopefully) to internalize Tony's as well as his own father's historical wisdom as positive introjects has shifted the scales for me. At the same time I realize that this may all be transitory.

What I initially found irksome has more to do with my own antipathy toward narcissistic types in RL as well as in fiction. The precious little cameos of Bacall and Kingsley for me were just a waste of time, although I realize and respect that many viewers will have gotten a kick out of this camp little romp. Of all the personality organizations, I have always experienced the narcissist as the most boring yet demanding; the most superficial yet the most craving of attention and admiration. While Chris, as a sociopath and addict is no psychological prize, I nevertheless enjoyed the transition from envy to hostility in his character toward those two film industry darlings.

But hey...we would have no Hollywood or national political system with these special people.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... vingEgo</A> at: 4/27/06 10:04 am

Re: Re:Kingsley and Bacall

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>On another note, did you catch Sir Ben call her Betty when they met at poolside? Her real name is Betty Joan Perske.<hr></blockquote>

I was wondering about that. thanks.

Re-watched ep 1 to see more of the pre-shooting Tony. I expect that the season is laid out as a whole and we can re-watch earlier eps and understand more than we did when first seen. couple quick things re: Gene--

When Gene asks to retire and Tony makes the hockey player joke, he says "there is no retiring from this." no hesitation.

Gene suggests that Benny might want to take his duties. At the time, i had no idea who Benny was. Now, of course, I know. Did Benny take over Gene's responsibilities? Might add to why he is so cocky now. Gene also commented that everyone knows Bobby wants it. We haven't seen Bobby's story yet though. I'm sure it'll be up in an ep soon.

And in a mirror scene to lux lounge, Gene brings Tony gifts. A watch. Very similar to Chris bringing Tony his spoils. Tony kept the watch. both scenes show him opening the watch box, looking, and keeping.

there are other things that make more sense now watching the burroughs intro. who is the guy on the treadmill? i remember having no idea when I first saw it, but assume he is one of the guys I don't know who is now getting more air time and authority since Vito is gone.


Re: Benny and the Vesuvio Tab

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Does anyone else wonder whether Benny gave the money to Artie on behalf of Tony? I don't recall exactly where in the Benny/Artie conflict Benny received the money. But I want to say it was pretty close to the fight. If he hadn't delivered it before that, I seriously doubt he delivered it at all.<hr></blockquote>

That's the first thing I thought when Tony handed the cash to Benny. Based on the Benny we've seen, I don't think for a moment he gave it all to Artie. Benny works for Chris, and seems to have his edgy cockiness -- except he is not made. Benny reminds me of AJ somehow. Attitude and self-importance without the experience and know-how to back it up.

The cash was given to Benny before the fight. Benny was already scamming Artie.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF= ... ofAlice</A> at: 4/28/06 1:34 am

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