Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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No offense to you chest rockwell, but seeing as you are a new comer I feel it worth welcoming you first and then offering you some advice for being a productive member of this cyber realm we are co-existing in. Please try to watch your tone when posting. Some posts are showing signs of authority about an ending and wanting us to all just move along now. While many of us are simply enjoying this ride and wish to find meaning in this medium as many feel meaning upon meaning is to be found if not for anything but for the trivialness of it all. We are gleeefully involved in this process regardless of its lack of sensibility or eben sometimes rationality. Dont look for that here and you and the rest of us I think will enjoy it more! Just my meditiations on it...............By the way, I am in no way suggesting my authority on behavior or asserting any rightousness about the subject. I just want to keep it a good time, you know! Thats truly it. No offense intended. Thanks for reading!

Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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SilvioMancini wrote:I Just finished watching" the fleshy part of the thigh" episode and noticed an interesting detail delievered through the charecter that works for the stereo company. He was talking about duality in reference to the two boxers not being seperate entities but actually were one being. Then later on, Phil visits Tony at home and by watching his reactions to Tony I realized that Phil is this "opposing" force in physics that the man was talking about. Hence Tony's fate and Phil's fate are interconnected, like the boxers. Therefore if Phil Dies, Tony Dies, because they are not seperate entities but one being. Make sense? Who cares but there is definitely something to the parallells between Phil and Tony in regards to pointing towards them having similar fates. To me the last two seasons is about Phil and Tony duking it out like boxers. Then remember the Blue Comet Scene with TOny and Sil boxing ala Raging Bull? Something to all of this......... HElp me if you are still believing..............

i'm a believer right here with ya :) just happen to believe something diff than you hehe :P


jasn

Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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just read this. seems a good solid view in some respects. It was on another posttake from it what you will;

Hi Everyone.

Its 2 weeks out, but since people are still talking about the Sopranos finale, I'm going to post my best guess as to what happened in Made in America. Apologizes to those who've heard it all ad nauseum, or for turning the diner scene into the Zapruder film ("Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left...)

As a premise to this little dissertation, I must assume that everything we see has been put there deliberately. We may not be supposed to pick up every clue or nuance, but someone still had to design every detail of the frame. "Shoot this wall, point the camera that way, light comes from here, dress the kids in blue", etc. Much of the symbolism may not be meant to be overtly understood. My guess is you wouldn't know that it's there so much as you'd notice if it wasn't.

I also have to say that I really know nothing. It's all just B.S. and conjecture. I have no knowledge of the film industry beyond being a viewer. Which means all that follows is likely a complete pantload. For some idiotic, cathartic reason I just needed to write it, if only to get this damn Journey song to stop ringing in my head. Feel free to "shoot holes" in the following as desired.

********************

Tony is dead. And Carmella & A.J. have probably joined him. "Evidence" to follow:

BTW, am I the last person in the room to get the irony that the Sopranos' final chapter is Episode 86?
(For you youngsters, "86" used to be slang for 'kill', 'end', 'get rid of', etc. Example: Director to Tony: "86 the nephew.")

Speaking of which -

Tony's fate is actually sealed two episodes before the end, when he murders Christopher. This is due to David Chase's apparent rule that when a Family member is to be killed he foreshadows his own murder by committing one himself shortly before. The assumption is that he justifies the killing off of a star by reminding us of the guy's true nature. Think back to each one's demise, and the events just prior:

Vito kills the guy in the woods.

Chris kills JD, the writer.

Bobby carries out his first hit. (It bears mention here that the episode in which this occurs, Soprano Home Movies, was repeated Memorial weekend, the week before Blue Comet, when Bobby met his own end. This also had the now-famous conversation between Tony & Bobby in the boat.)

Silvio kills the guy with piano wire.

Tony kills Christopher.

To justify the killing of DC's anti-hero, his sin must be that much more egregious. Tony not only chokes his wounded 'second son' on his own blood, but he then heads to Vegas, taking Chris' girl and sealing the deal with the Devil. Suddenly Tony's bad luck at roulette turns around, a fact he mentions again to Paulie in Ep 86.

Then there's the diner scene itself (cue the DVR).

In his article, Bob Harris
http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/
points out a lot of the clues. I had missed the Last Supper imagery of Tony against the ice cream shop's back wall. Likewise the significance of orange in the Godfather series and its apparent connections here. The little orange housecat who stares forlornly at Christopher's photo in earlier scenes returns as a giant, growling tiger set over Tony's shoulder in the leftmost panel of the wall - nearest the bathroom.

The color makes a number of appearances in the episode - for example, in the next-to-last scene when Tony visits Junior in the psych ward before heading to the diner, a sign on the wall made of clumsy-looking orange letters reads "Have a Nice Day". Maybe it's random, but it seems like a dementedly clever little omen to me.

Speaking of the symbolism of color, Harris notes that all four Sopranos are wearing black in the diner scene. The only exception to this is Carmella, who arrives in a red coat. She sheds the coat when she sits down - red changing to black = 'blood then death'?.

To digress a bit, DC uses color as a metaphor in the preceding episode, when Bobby dies, meeting his end wearing a blue shirt and holding a blue toy train called the Blue Comet, for which the Ep is named. Blue - as a symbol of sadness - seems to represent the choice Bobby made in life. He could have been a good guy, but took a different path. I think Bobby B. - the reluctant mobster - is the real Blue Comet. It's also interesting that his death was not silent like his suggestion in the boat, as he sees his attacker and then withers in a hail of gunfire.

Sorry, back to the ending...

Though I failed to get the Biblical references of the Ice Cream shop wall, it did seem that upon entering the diner, Tony did what Tony Soprano would do. He surveyed the scene and chose a seat in the center - surrounded by people - with a clear view of the door. In contrast to Mr. Harris' view, I don't believe Tony died by being sloppy. There's just no way DC would let that happen. (More on this later.)

There are lots of other symbols - I'm sure many more than I've caught. The trucker in the USA hat seems to represent the Feds - always there, always watching. Then there's the much discussed Man in Members Only Jacket. In addition to the Members Only reference to the mob & episode of the same name, I wonder if its initials - M.O. (motus operandi) are significant. Is the guy the M.O. for the hit?

Then we have the song. Mr. Harris thinks it revolves around Carmella, since it starts when she enters. But I think it's broader than that. There will be no music when the credits roll, so this is DC's ending piece in a series where music plays a huge role in setting its imagery. It tells the story of The Sopranos as a whole as it gives clues to its end. The next time you watch, listen to the lyrics. They're perfectly aligned with the characters. "Just a small town girl" as Carmella sits, "Just a city boy" - closeup of Tony. The less relevant lines are muted by speaking. "paying anything to roll the dice" - Tony again. MOJ guy enters on "strangers... waiting", view of MOJ out of focus past A.J. on "shadows, searching in the night", then he passes Tony and enters the bathroom as "hiding... somewhere in the night" builds to crescendo. This last line - "Somewhere in the night" - must be significant as the song of the same title appears not once but twice in the tabletop jukebox list. Take a look. DC wants you to see it.

The tension is building. Meadow is parking the car (or trying to).

Which brings us to what I think may be the central theme of the scene: Meadow can't park the car because metaphorically she "doesn't fit in" with the rest of the family. While Carmella and A.J. have known the truth about Tony from the beginning - in generalities if not specifics - Meadow remains morally pure. Whether it's naiveté or denial, to the end she maintains her cluelessness. In her last scene with Tony she explains that she's chosen law school over medicine after "seeing how Italians are treated" by the government.

We remember that it was Meadow's voice that brought Tony back from death's door, piercing his comatose dream as his body lay crashing in the hospital after he was shot by Junior. It's her voice that sounds the alarm in the very first episode, when Tony collapses in a panic attack. Despite all the evidence, Meadow continues to believe in her father.

"Don't stop believing - hold onto that feeling..."

We're now in the final moments. While Meadow struggles in the street, the onion rings arrive. "Best in the state, as far as I'm concerned", Tony says, to cement the Godfather reference. And it is here, I believe, that the fate of his wife and son are foretold. Remember, if everything we see has been put there deliberately, we have to assume that this "banal diner scene" as one reporter called it, is much more. One by one, A.J., Carmella & Tony pop an onion ring into their mouths - whole. Even I got the reference to Communion. But it's the way the scene is presented - with all three 'communing' together. 1-2-3, no intervening shots.

I believe DC is telling us that as duplicitous participants in Tony's life, Carmella and A.J. will share his fate. Maybe it's a stretch, but why else would you show it that way, the three making such an odd, simultaneous gesture?

The next-to-last image is a view from the end of the booth - A.J. & Carm on the right, Tony alone on the left. This camera angle is shown several times, but it's notable that it appears here. See that the angle is shot a little left of center on the booth.

The vacant seat next to Tony is Meadow's. The camera angle, from the end of the booth, is the view from the bathroom. Her delay has provided the only clear line of fire possible in the crowded restaurant - a fact MOJ guy notes earlier when he glances toward the table.

Remember that one of the jukebox song titles on which Tony lingered was Heart's "Who will you run to?". Now it's Meadow who's running, toward the diner. But why? Why doesn't she just walk? Are the onion rings really that good? No. These are the last frames of the last episode. It simply cannot be something that random or 'banal'.

Meadow is running to save her father.

Yes, it's a metaphor, David Chase's beautifully crafted, poetic sign-off. Tony, the ever-vigilant mob boss, knows that MOJ guy is in the bathroom. But he's distracted for just an instant, as the door opens and he sees his daughter. The one 'pure' person in his world is the last thing he sees. Shots fire. Meadow's inability to fit in has saved her own life, but is Tony's demise. A.J. and Carmella become 'collateral damage' as Meadow looks on - her illusions finally shattered.

Unfortunately, however, though she survives, Meadow's future isn't much brighter than the rest. She's about to marry into the mob herself - taking the same path as her mother. In the end, DC is telling us that while the faces come and go, nothing really changes.

"Oh the movie never ends - it goes on and on and on and on..."

For the record, the first time I watched the show I, too, thought there was a problem with the picture. And, yes, for the record none of this really happened. Only the Creator knows for sure. But as he said: "It's all there".

Cut to black. Tony is dead. Long live The Sopranos.

Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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SilvioMancini wrote:No offense to you chest rockwell, but seeing as you are a new comer I feel it worth welcoming you first and then offering you some advice for being a productive member of this cyber realm we are co-existing in. Please try to watch your tone when posting. Some posts are showing signs of authority about an ending and wanting us to all just move along now. While many of us are simply enjoying this ride and wish to find meaning in this medium as many feel meaning upon meaning is to be found if not for anything but for the trivialness of it all. We are gleeefully involved in this process regardless of its lack of sensibility or eben sometimes rationality. Dont look for that here and you and the rest of us I think will enjoy it more! Just my meditiations on it...............By the way, I am in no way suggesting my authority on behavior or asserting any rightousness about the subject. I just want to keep it a good time, you know! Thats truly it. No offense intended. Thanks for reading!
Yes, they're connected. I've felt it as well. Yes, Tony is dead. No, he did not live. No, he did not get arrested.

Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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I have not read the whole post yet (not enough time unfortunately) but this struck me:
This is due to David Chase's apparent rule that when a Family member is to be killed he foreshadows his own murder by committing one himself shortly before.
I'm not sure that is a steadfast rule. I don't recall Jimmy Altieri killing anyone prior to him getting whacked. Or Richie...who'd he kill? I guess Ralph killed the horse immediately before his demise...but I'm just not sure this is a "rule" as much as coincidence. But it is an interesting theory and one worth watching again to test.

EDIT - as well, be careful in stepping past what was presented on screen. Sil, as far as we know, is not dead. ;)

EDIT 2 - Just some others off the top of my head - Philly Spoons was killed for his big mouth (i don't recall he ever whacked anyone that we saw)...and Angelo Garepe was killed without killing someone himself. Assuming you only mean people that were "whacked"...if it does apply, it seems it would apply only in season 6 or only to the immediate Soprano Family (and even there it is still a theory with some holes.)
"Leave the gun...take the cannoli." - Clemenza

Think Tony Died? Consider this...

Visit my Blog at Hear the Hurd

Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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dad1153 wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a theory from my co-worker that somehow validates the idea that the sudden cut to black at the end of "Made of America" means the death of Tony Soprano.

THE LINCOLN THEORY

Chase & Co. have gone a long way to make Abraham Lincoln references in the past two half-seasons: Tony watching the documentary about Lincoln's depression, AJ and the 'Lincoln logs'/TV commercial, etc. After a mob war exploded Tony was like Lincoln, the leader of one side of an armed conflict between a brotherhood (LCN) fighting amongst themselves. NJ won the civil war between it and NJ by putting business (i.e. the unity of the country and this thing of ours) ahead of personal vendettas (i.e. Phil) during nagotiations with key allies of the other side. That doesn't mean that everybody back during Civil War times agreed with the winning side, as evidenced by the widespread discontent that led to assassin John Wilkes Booth gunning down Lincoln in front of his wife and friends during a theater play (back then as American as the diner in "Made in America's" finale). Tony, like Lincoln, was the leader of the victorious side that won the Civil War but the price (assuming the cut to black means he got clipped) was dying in front of his loved one's at the hands of a lone assassin with his own reasons for disliking him (it doesn't really matter who sanctioned). This theory validates all the Lincoln references leading up to "Made in America."


They also emphasized the word "Ford" on Phil's car, they showed it several times. When Tony handed Janice some money, it was a folded bill with Lincoln's face on it. I believe you mentioned Carmella's Lincoln Log sandwiches---also there was a magic bullet commercial playing in the hospital in Sil's scene right before Little Miss Sunshine was shown. These may all mean nothing but I don't think so. I do not believe that these were put in for no reason.

Re: Is Tony dead or still lviing in Sopranoland?

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tomahawk wrote:See the B side of the final song played on the juke box - "Anyway You Want It" that's what the ending is. You can believe what you want.

I saw this in another post, so don't give me credit for this catch.


That's probably what David Chase intended----you can have the ending go anyway you want it: Tony dies, Tony goes to trial, Tony is put in witness protection, Tony has a black-out, Tony goes on looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. There is a case to be made for all of these , but I just wish we knew for sure what happened.

Re: Finding Some Meaning in "The Ending"

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khristmaskathy wrote:They also emphasized the word "Ford" on Phil's car, they showed it several times. When Tony handed Janice some money, it was a folded bill with Lincoln's face on it. I believe you mentioned Carmella's Lincoln Log sandwiches---also there was a magic bullet commercial playing in the hospital in Sil's scene right before Little Miss Sunshine was shown. These may all mean nothing but I don't think so. I do not believe that these were put in for no reason.
Lincoln was shot in the back of the head.
Kennedy was (supposedly) shot in the back of the head.

Ford had two assassination attempts on his life, neither successful.

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