Re: Mercy killings, Godfathers and breakthroughs

#31
Great thread. Fly, I hadn't thought of the 'he' as being Johnny Boy. Polymath had the idea 'he' was Kevin Finnerty and I thought that was a good idea as well.

In terms of babies, we saw the beautific madonna/child nursing moment. He talked about Carm's house falling down & killing the unborn child. Also remember the story of the baby drowning when he was visiting Bobby and Janice.

It seems like death of innocents (innocence) is on his mind in a big way.

Re: Episode 6.18: Kennedy and Heidi - Grades and General Rev

#32
FlyOnMelfisWall wrote: Since others have opined that the sun was not actually setting in the desert but RISING, this could fit very well. The sun flares brightly as it ascends in the sky, helping Tony "get" that he, as a SON, has finally vanquished the hold of his fathers. The son has risen.

If that turns out to be the epiphany, then I will humbly accept that "a great wind has been carrying me across the sky".:icon_biggrin: I'm just not sure that's where it's headed.


I don't think that's where it's headed.

The son hasn't risen. He's fallen....and fallen far. If any son has risen, perhaps it's AJ as he grapples with morality. But Tony is in deep, deep trouble as this series concludes.

Let's look even how far he's plummeted since Season 6A. Remember all of the doubts and (at points) even unwillingness to exert his power as mob boss following the near death experience? Now he's come full circle to be almost more self absorbed and evil than he ever was before.

If Chase wanted Tony to come to some ephiphany than perhaps he would have shown it some other fashion....either by denying the urge to kill Christopher, or perhaps in some way saving his own son, AJ. I think any revelation Tony has come to at this stage is not a good one....afterall that final scene came in Las Vegas, "The City of Sin" while high on peyote and with a stripper.

In an earlier post you mentioned that you had lost a great deal of your emotional investment in Tony as a character. And I think that's exactly what Chase is looking for now from the audience as he concludes this series and turns the knife a bit in all of us who attempted to look beyond everything Tony did wrong, and searched for the underlying humanity. As Chase has often said "these are not good people."

Even after Ade's death Tony showed his true evil, beating up Christopher. Sure he was upset over Tony B's death etc, but that was a glimpse into his own humanity; it was a real precursor for this entire episode. Afterall, should Tony have had any doubt about Christopher's loyalty after he turned in his own fiance? Most people wouldn't. But he doubted Chris even more and actually helped to drive him away. Chris then expressed his own anguish in his movie, because the man who he was "going to go to hell for" didn't appreciate his ultimate sacrifice.

Re: Mercy killings, Godfathers and breakthroughs

#34
very nice FoMW.
so after alienating himself from his other father figures he finally kills him who forced him into the mafia by using a cleaver and who told him to never ever become a gambler...and when gambling and winning he sees how his father is dead and feels a godlike high because of the death of his father/chris when the sun goes up and he is is on mescaline.

so, what else is there to come?suicide or flipping?

Re: Episode 6.18: Kennedy and Heidi - Grades and General Rev

#37
Fleetwood55 wrote:When Tony bets on number 24 twice, & wins, the ball is shown to be landing on number 10. Is something bigger going on here, drug related? Or just an editing gaffe?

I also posted this on the Vegas trip thread.
Just curious, cause I haven't seen anyone mention it yet.
Thought I was hallucinating till I just watched it again.

Parts of this episode are genuinely spectacular, of course.


I just watched it and you're right. Hard to pass it off as an editing gaffe. These people watch every frame several times and pay pretty close attention. So bizarre. I did notice he wins on 24, 20 and then 24 again. Aren't 20 and 24 the ages of his 2 children?

Re: Episode 6.18: Kennedy and Heidi - Grades and General Rev

#38
thedust2020 wrote:I just watched it and you're right. Hard to pass it off as an editing gaffe. These people watch every frame several times and pay pretty close attention. So bizarre. I did notice he wins on 24, 20 and then 24 again. Aren't 20 and 24 the ages of his 2 children?


Ooh, nice catch!! 20 and 24 are correct. According to what we learned in Remember When, Meadow would have been born in September of 1982, making her 24 now. And we know AJ is still 20, as Tony just commented on this in the previous episode.

Also, Fleetwood, that was a great catch on the incongruity between the numbers bet and those called to win. Need to watch that scene again closely to appreciate it first hand.

This fact would pretty much establish that Tony only went to the casino spiritually or metaphysically, although, as I said before, I don't think the physicality of it matters much.

Does anyone know how much memory of a peyote trip the tripper retains after the fact? Do they black out afterward?
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: Episode 6.18: Kennedy and Heidi - Grades and General Rev

#40
ballermann wrote:wouldnt meadow be 25?NFL starts in september and he played quite a few weeks,its at least late october by now i guess.


She was born in 1982, ballermann. There was some discussion on another board about when season 6b started. There was a headline on the paper in Soprano Home Movies called "2007 Budget", but then budgets are supposed to be released at the end of the prior fiscal year, which for 2007 is June 30, 2006.

Tony celebrates birthday 47 in the first ep, and he was born August 22nd of 2006 (Another Toothpick). This points to a late summer, 2006 start for season 6b.

Paulie starts the conversation about Willie Overall with "Labor Day, 1982", and we later learn that this was one week before Meadow's birth. So Meadow turned 24 sometime around Stage 5.

The one discrepancy is that Tony tells Paulie with great self assurance that he was 22 when he killed Willie. In fact he would have just turned 23 a week or so before if born in August. But I think Chase and company aren't bothered by a discrepancy that small.
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

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