Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#1
Just a thought...

If Tony did get arrested on RICO charges. I would expect the government would sieze everything in Tony and Carmella's name.

John Sacromi lost everything..they even took a condo in his father's name...they were even gonna take his wife's 401k from a previous job she worked.

I would think any cash in the bank whether Tony's or Carmella's is going to get siezed.

I would think...if Carmella was so smart..she would somehow "wash" that money or turn it into cash.

Re: Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#4
ballermann wrote:i was actually for a while wondering if she would just 'vanish' once she has the cash.but i guess she loves at least AJ and Meadow too much.

maybe she should run the whole spec house thing on her fathers name and let him have the money in the bank.


For better or for worse, I think she also loves Tony too much to do that. No couple in movies or television has ever illustrated the push-pull dynamic better. IMO there's still a lot more pull than push.
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#6
If this was real life, I would expect that Carmella would at some point ask or investigate about offshore banks.

To make a long story short, there are a few countries (like Switzerland) that offer people a very high level of protection against their governments. If you have a lot of money and there is even the slilghtest possibility that the government might one day try to sieze it, it is a good strategy to put some of it in a Swiss bank account.

Many people prefer banks in the Caymen Islands. I think the reason for that is they get some better interest on their money. Usually in Swiss banks, you get zero interest but you also get the highest level of protection. If your money is in a Swiss bank account, the government will huff and puff and scream their lungs out, but unless you have clearly brokes some serious law, the government can't touch your money.

By the way, the dirty little secret behind all of this is that the only way the Swiss government will co-operate with a foreign government is if you have clearly broken some law - but it has to be against a Swiss law and (here it is): tax evasion is not a criminal offense in Switzerland.

So, if Carmella has any good friends or good advisers, she will get 90 percent of her money out of the country into a safe haven pronto. Then the Feds can huff and puff and blow their brains out. But they can't touch her money.

Re: Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#7
aprilemoney wrote:If Tony did get arrested on RICO charges. I would expect the government would sieze everything in Tony and Carmella's name.


I have not reviewed the law on this, as I'm sure it's complex and somewhat self-contradictory, like all law.:icon_biggrin: But my hunch is that once a RICO conviction or guilty plea is obtained, the siezable assets would be somewhat akin to the law on fraudulent conveyances (conveyances made with intent to hinder, delay, or defraud a present or future creditor). The first hunting grounds for fraudulent conveyances are the assets of the debtor's family members, since that's the easiest way for someone to hold on to the practical benefits of property while relinquishing nominal control or title. Since Carmela has no source of income independent from Tony, I suspect a presumption of procurement from Tony's illicit criminal gains would attach to all assets in her name. The burden of proof would likely shift to her to demonstrate that she procured an asset with funds from another source.

Now if there were adequate bank or other records to prove that she only borrowed money from Tony to buy the land and build the house and that she repaid him after it was sold, then I think there's an argument to be made that the profits from the home sale are hers, or are hers less the standard rate of interest that she would have had to pay to a lending institution had she gotten money for the project that way. You can bet the U.S. attorney would fight this, but that doesn't mean they'd win.

I'm very interested in how this aspect of the story will turn out since I'm pretty convinced at this point that Tony will ultimately try to leave the mob, with or without the assistance of the FBI/U.S. Attorney. I've long suspected that some of Carm's $40,000 of securities investments in season 4 would be a key to her and Tony's future, along with, possibly, the secret stock investment she made in season one on the tip from the neighbors at the barbecue. And don't forget that Tony actually DID sign all the paperwork for Brian to invest in a life insurance trust . . . it was just "in vitro" :icon_mrgreen: rather than irrevocable, which will actually work out much better for them in the event there's some kind of "lamming" it in his and Carm's future because he can cash that money in. Of course there would have been no investment at all if it weren't for Carm, so they should both receive credit.

But Tony said something in season 4 that I think will prove prophetic. He didn't want Carmela to have access to his money because he feared that she might actually prove more adept at earning, a blow to his male self esteem as supreme protector and provider for his family. He told Ginsberg, "Carmela's a smart woman. If I let her have control of the money it'll be 'Intel this, Coca Cola that.'" "She takes care of the house, I take care of the money," or words to that effect. How ironic if she ends up financing the flight from his increasing misery in mob life.
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#8
Carmella can't bolt with the money. $600K wouldn't last her more than a few years. She might actually have to get a real job. Without Tony, her house building days are over. Like Vito, she would run out of money quickly and realize she didn't want to work for a living. I think Carmella showed her true colors when she refers to the house profits as "her money". Without Tony, that entire project never gets off the ground. Never passes inspection and never gets sold. In addition, by using shoddy materials, leaning on local inspector and relying on Tony; Carmella has "joined the club" moving closer to a life of crime, not distancing from it.

What's ironic about Tony's "understanding" with Carmella, is that he has not gotten much out of this deal, other than moving back into the house. His relationship with Meadow and AJ is distant at best. Carmella has been up and down in her support of him. He has no goomar and his only extracurricular activities have been one time shots (sorry) with hookers and strippers.

I thought that the idea behind a Swiss account was that it was a "numbered" account and the Swiss say "we don't know whose accounts these are", therefore they are not subject to levy.

Re: Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#9
tomahawk wrote:I think Carmella showed her true colors when she refers to the house profits as "her money". Without Tony, that entire project never gets off the ground.

[snip]

What's ironic about Tony's "understanding" with Carmella, is that he has not gotten much out of this deal, other than moving back into the house.


It is her money if contracts and agreements mean anything. If Tony got the bad end of the deal, perhaps it just shows that Carm's a better business person than he is, or at least better than he gives her credit for.:icon_wink:

http://thechaselounge.net/showpost.php?p=15183&postcount=164
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: Feds sieze Carmella's profits

#10
I thought that the idea behind a Swiss account was that it was a "numbered" account and the Swiss say "we don't know whose accounts these are", therefore they are not subject to levy.


Numbered Swiss accounts are normally reserved for accounts with larger balances. But anyone can request a numbered account. The advantage to a numbered account is that all communications between the bank and account holder are then done by the account number and anyone spying or eavesdropping can't tie the activity to a specific person. In other words, it's to increase your privacy - usually from governement agencies who can tap telephones and spy on wire transfers and cables.

The Swiss don't need to pretend they don't know who the accounts belong to. There is a law in Switzerland called the Swiss Banking Secrecy Act. The country was practically founded on it. The Swiss feel very strongly about it. It basically says that anyone who has a Swiss bank account is entired to full secrecy - primarily from any government agencies in the person's home country. The only way the Swiss banks will reveal anything about an account holder is if that person has broken a serious criminal law (that is, a crime in Switzerland) - specifically that they have committed some crime on a "prima facie" basis (meaning on the face of it). So you can't rob, murder or embezzle and then expect the Swiss to protect you when you stash the proceeds from your crime in a Swiss Bank. But you can evade income taxes all you like and they will protect you because income tax evasion is not a crime in Switzerland. It is a civil offense. That is the reason and the basis for so much of the Swiss economy being based on banking. It's been going on for hundreds of years and the Swiss know that if they every cheat anyone, their reputation will go straight down the tubes. So they never violate that secrecy law.

For those of you who may be interested, there was a story reported in Drudge today about an American who set up his own style of "Swiss Bank" in Seattle for Americans who wanted the privacy of a Swiss Bank without actually going to Switzerland. The Feds came down hard on him claiming people were using it to avoid paying their taxes. Well, duh!

I won't post the link because I don't think that's appropriate. But anyone who is interested should have no problem finding the story either by going to the Drudge report or using Google. This would be the kind of thing that Carmella would be interested in to hide her money. But I'm sure she would have been smart enough to avoid putting her money into something as risky as this. She should just deal with an offshore bank herself directly. There is no reason to go through some middle man. A middle man (like that Russian mob banker) is very likely to steal your money and what protection do you have? I have never understood why so many people chose to deal with a middle man when they can deal with the offshore bank directly themselves.
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