Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#11
SalmonSushi wrote:I would like to add, however, than I believe his particularly visceral reaction was very much a product of the FBI's intrusion into the personal. Firstly, by interrupting his morning routine of fetching the paper, the Feds caught Tony in a vulnerable position. (I believe that the only other time his paper-fetching has been interrupted was Pussy's return in season 2, so it is no surprise that Tony would react unpleasantly to meeting a car at the bottom of his driveway.) In this way, the FBI brought their implicit threat "home" to Tony in a way that has not overtly occurred before except, perhaps, during actual arrests.


Glad you decided to make your voice heard, SalmonSushi. And an excellent point you make there.
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#12
On the drinking thing, some of the 9/11 hijackers attended a bar in, I believe, Miami, even though others in their circle were vehemently critical. If I'm not mistaken, a few of the hijackers even went to the bar a couple of days before the attacks. Typical duplicity, putting down American vices and the open sexuality of women yet availing themselves of it.

Many of them also frequented strip clubs - in Florida, Las Vegas and elsewhere. one of clubs was the 'pink pony' in daytona beach, fl, days before the attacks. Some of them also reportedly watched pornos in their motels on Sept. 10 (according to the motel bills)

I 100 percent agree w/FOMW that Harris' offer is a possible out for Tony. Even if not via the terrorist route in particular, it forces Tony to consciously confront the possibility of flipping at a time when he's already worried about what the future might portend.

I took his jumpiness and subsequent anger as a sign of just how on edge Tony really is these days. I think the Tony of past seasons would have done a better job keeping his cool.
As Fly pointed out, Harris and Tony have a long track record. Also, from the beginning of the series we have seen Tony do a masterful job at staying level headed, albeit often a smartass, when the Feds came around. ( we've seen him shooting the breeze with Harris in front of Satriale's many times; waving and laughing at the Feds parked outside his house in season 3; etc.)

IMHO, a younger Tony (pre 'members only?' would have been startled at seeing the car pull up, but would have quickly composed himself when he saw who it was and maybe even smiled going up the driveway, feeling relieved it wasn't a more serious visit and maybe even flattered at the idea of being called upon to help get the 'real bad guys' (not that he would have done it then either -- but I could still see him liking the idea on some level) Instead, he looked extremely and unusually frightened, fear that quickly and predictably turned to anger.
I don't even think the dig at Meadow's safety would have set him off to that extent in past seasons. Sure, it's a horrible thought but extremely general. The example they gave doesn't put Meadow in any more danger than the rest of the population.

Finally, there's no way Tony would knowingly protect terrorists (remember how angry and concerned he got after seeing the '60 Minutes' special about the vulnerability of U.S. ports?) There are ways that Tony could indirectly tip off the feds and not have to technically consider himself a rat. We've already seen that he's willing to go the law enforcement route when he thinks the situation calls for it (the soccer coach, Feech) The feds' offer touched something off in Tony that goes much deeper than ratting out potential terrorists.

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#13
While I do agree that the M E subplot appears to be important (after all, it's been mentioned in several episodes) I think it's more along the lines of added pressure. It appears to me that the last episodes are displaying the decline of the mob for not just the NY/NJ area (and the entire country as a whole) but also the cutting off of every other avenue for Tony. All of Tony's support is fading away. Johny Sac is gone. Carmine is gone. Christopher is gone. Slowly, one by one, every close associate is going away, and leaving Tony alone and abandoned. I think the series is definitely taking a turn back to the family. Not he LCN family, but the personal family of Tony, Carmela, Meadow and AJ. It seems (IMO) that by the end, that's all Tony will have left.

So, I believe that Tony will eventually have pressure from the Feds, From NY, from the Middle Easterns, and even within his own organization. He'll be cut off, and left alone, scrambling to save what little he has left.

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#14
At first I sort of dismissed this idea as being ludicrous, but the more I think about it the more it begins to make sense. I remember reading some article in which David Chase was responding to criticisms about how The Sopranos has evolved into the “show where nothing happens”, obviously a characteristically superficial and misguided interpretation of the show. Anyways, he mentioned how in the episode Luxury Lounge one of the important reveals or subplots was that Tony was aware of the two Arabs and their connection to credit card scam Benny was orchestrating. Tony was even suspicious enough to outright ask Christopher if he thought they had any connection to terrorism.

The Arabs initially seemed like a red herring or pure misdirection but for some reason which has yet to be fully revealed they were given far more screen time their importance to the show seemed to merit. Their continual presence on the show for almost 4-5 episodes seems to imply they will somehow be utilized again in a more important and meaningful way.

In addition to this Tony’s character has specifically expressed his opinions concerning terrorism numerous times, including worrying about the safety of the very ports Agent Harris was speaking of when he confronted Tony is his driveway. I think the important thing to note from all this is that at heart, Tony, and most Mafioso’s are firm believers in the concept or glamorized notion of the “American Dream”; of immigrating to this great land of freedom and opportunity and building a life for your-self. His true patriotism and just how committed he is to this concept doesn’t really become apparent until the episode with the Columbus day parade and his subsequent diatribe to Silvio at the end of the episode. Despite their inherent immoral behavior I truly believe that most wise guys believe they are living the true “American Dream” and they are more patriotic towards their own country than one might initially suspect.

After-all weren’t their rumblings about the last episode being titled “Made in America”?

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#15
The storyline of the Middle Easterners is rather obvious. The questions is, Is Chase rather obvious? After 6 seasons, I don't think we can answer that. We can't answer that because his storylines have spoken for themselves--to us. It is no longer a questions of obvious. It's a questions of, What is Chasian?

Was the storyline of Big Pussy's hit "obvious?"

Was the storyline of Ade's hit "obvious?"

Was the storyline of Chris' movie-writing career "obvious?"

Was the storyline of Junior's shooting of Tony "obvious?"

And so many other "plot twists" can be asked here.

The answer to all of these questions is, quite frankly, "YES."

Wouldn't you all agree that all of these plot lines were "obvious?"

But they all came about. And so, therefore, it is Chasian to be obvious.

The Feds have offered an opportunity for legal collusion for Tony. In light of his internal struggles and his genuine desire for happiness, he will seize the opportunity. That it will come in the package of thwarting a potential major terrorist action will only make it palatable for Tony to swallow. He is coming to know, more clearly each episode now, that his family, his happiness, his truth, is all worth it.

Jake

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#16
Doubt anything has been shown in the show about this thought. Lets think of unscripted background stuff to lead to all of this about Tony and the agents. Would it be logical for the FBI to bug Dr Melphi's office? Not to use what is said as evidence in court but to court Tony psychologically. We know the FBI uses psychologist, why don't they use psychologist to take Tony's sessions and use it in their benifits?

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#19
THis is interesting do you think that Agent Harris might actually still be working organized crime, but just using the Terror Angle--and appealing to Tony's desire to fight terrorism-as in in to garner information? I could definitely see that being the case.....

Gosh this show really has me going in a million directions! I love it.

Here is a question: At Satriale's when Tony goes over to Agents' Harris and Goddard and say I got nothing to complain about and Ag. Harris says sure you do...Phil Leotardo...Then he says that when he first started in Brookline he brought Phil Leotardo up on Rape Charges was it? Can anyone confirm what Agent Harris said about Phil Leotardo?
Don Scallop

"You Can't Kill me twice Sally Boy, I'm already fuckin' dead remember"

Re: Agent Harris' Appeal for Help: Is This Tony's "Out"?

#20
I think the feds are using psychology against Tony. Whether or not this ties in with Melphi, or any actual FBI psychiatrists, who knows?

They do seem to know what buttons to push, however.

Working on Tony's sense of paranoia is obvious. Warning that there are discussions on high levels in NY regarding an actual plot against Jersey, is non-verifiable at this point from the viewer's perspective. Sure, there have been passing comments like, "choose someone over there," (Butchie to Phil). But never any 'go-ahead' comments from Phil.

I find it plausible that Harris is a sheep in wolf's clothing, who may be instigating a confrontation through manipulating Tony on a psychological level. The fallout would be field day for the FBI.
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