In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the Mafia

#1
I actually always thought that murder was a prerequisite to official entry, a guarantee of loyalty provided by the subject's willingness to commit the ultimate crime on behalf of the organization. Chris seems to imply as much in season one when he says that as soon as he whacked Kolar he should have been made and later remarks that whacking a rat would essentially get him made. I seem to recall even reading that murder was the only avenue for being made in some article or book related to the Godfather movies and the mob. Moe Green offers the origin for the term "made" when he said he "made his bones" when Michael was dating cheerleaders, which I took to mean he whacked his first victim when Michael was a teenager.

So for all you mob experts out there, am I just totally offbase with this? Or was this at one time a policy that has since been relaxed? Or might is it that it can be waived for sons of made men who have themselves killed?
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#2
Not necessarily. It can be the case for many up-and-comers in crime, but there are many variables. Can the guy earn? If the guy can earn well he can be made merely on the premise that his envelope is going to be big every week, no matter what. The only reason some of these guys are required to murder and earn is to prove a certain amount of loyalty before they are formally inducted, as we saw in last night's episode with Bobby; murder, whether you like it or not, is going to leave a tremendous impact on your concious. As clearly portrayed throughout the series, sociopaths, like us, make good and bad decisions and they can often leave us siding with the authority who made us do it. I think that at least was the reasoning behind making some guys "make their bones," at least 30+ years ago it was. It all circumstantial. These top guys, they don't want a loose-cannon that is going to cause beefs while blowing away every guy that pisses them off, but in certain cases, when the murder is beneficial or just in the eyes of the top, it will certainly help push your name into the books.


Here are two pretty specific examples of guys who have murdered to get in and guys who did not have to:

In 1973 Gotti participated in the murder of James McBratney, the member of a gang that specialized in robbing and kidnapping bookmakers and loan sharks. The murder was ordered after a nephew of Carlo Gambino's had been kidnapped and found dead. Taking part in the McBratney killing eventually meant for Gotti another two years in prison, but it also made him eligible for Cosa Nostra membership. After Carlo Gambino died, after 'the books were opened' and after serving his time for the McBratney murder, John Gotti was 'made' in 1977. http://www.organized-crime.de/revmus03johngotti.htm

In my opinion, John Gotti could have been made without carrying out this hit under Carlo Gambino, but not his predecessor, Paul Castellano, who as most know, had his share of problems with Gotti that lead up to his assassination. Doing the short-sentence, murdering for a top guy and earning made enough Gotti-supporters in the family that he was made.


Case #2 (of many): Thomas Gambino, son of the late Gambino boss Carlo. Never had to murder; made millions of dollars in stock market and internet scams. Even if he hadn't been Calro's son, someone pulling in that much money is going to be made so that tribue can fall into place accordingly. Capeci even referred to the guy as "a capo in the crime family that bears his father Carlo Gambino's name (right )but he has never been known as a tough guy.
Gambino, never charged with a violent crime, strikes so little fear in people that his stockbroker allegedly stole $2 million from him while he was jailed for racketeering and other federal charges in 1996." A college educated guy that can pull in big money are a diamond in the rough now days in Organized Crime. Besides, there's cases of guys buying buttons today. Also varies family to family.

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#3
Thanks for that very informative and well-documented reply, sharpie.:icon_wink: And, as I see it's your first post, welcome also to the forum.

I knew that this show is far too committed to realism to have put in a scenario like this (Bobby being made despite having never murdered) unless there was ample precedent for it in real crime circles. Still, my contrary impression before this ep was so strong that I had to ask.
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#6
TommySoprano wrote:After reading Donnie Brasco, Joe Pistone states that after he got so deep into the Mob hierarchy, and then was revealed to be a Federal Agent, the Mob made it mandatory that you must have a kill to enter. The Mob knows that no Cop or Fed is going to kill anyone in cold blood.


IIRC, that all took place in the mid 70s, correct? So is it your understanding that to be made today, "official" policy is he has to whack someone?
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#7
FlyOnMelfisWall wrote:IIRC, that all took place in the mid 70s, correct? So is it your understanding that to be made today, "official" policy is he has to whack someone?



Donnie Brasco took place in the late 70's up to about 1981, just before Joe Pistone was about to be "made." It is my understanding that after this embarassment of the Mob, new rules were initiated that stated one had to do a hit to become a made guy. I'll look it up in the novel sometime this week and let you know what is says. I'm pretty sure it is in there or maybe it is stated at the end of the film version.

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#8
In the first part of the 20th century, the requirement to murder someone was to demonstrate your loyalty to the family. After mob guys started turning into rats in the 60s and 70s (Joe Valachi, et al), the ratiionale for requiring a guy to kill before he could be made was to have "that murder" on the guy. The bosses thought they could hold the murder over his head to keep him quiet if not loyal.

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#9
haironmelfistwat wrote:In the first part of the 20th century, the requirement to murder someone was to demonstrate your loyalty to the family. After mob guys started turning into rats in the 60s and 70s (Joe Valachi, et al), the ratiionale for requiring a guy to kill before he could be made was to have "that murder" on the guy. The bosses thought they could hold the murder over his head to keep him quiet if not loyal.


I can't tell you how offended I am by this screen name. Anyone who needs to make himself feel good by choosing to identify himself in this manner is in need of serious therapy.

Re: In reality, must you have murdered to be "made" in the M

#10
Cousin Hesh wrote:I can't tell you how offended I am by this screen name. Anyone who needs to make himself feel good by choosing to identify himself in this manner is in need of serious therapy.


Cousin Hesh, I try to foster an atmosphere here where no member is subject to putdowns by another, like suggestions that a member needs therapy. However I recognize that HOMT's screen name is inherently provocative (and offensive to some), so I don't want to sound snippy or inconsiderate of what you expressed.

His screen name was the source of much constroversy when he first signed up at Sopranoland during season 5. This history was unexpectedly revisited in the "Tell Us About Yourself" thread in the Satriale's Meet Market forum. I would gently suggest you read it to gain a better understanding of his admitedly vulgar sense of humor and some very pertinent facts about his past. It starts here http://thechaselounge.net/showpost.php?p=11995&postcount=66, post #66 in the thread and several after.

I think it's best if we all remember that the very show we're here to celebrate is itself highly politically incorrect, vulgar, and profane, and so, in that sense, I think some leeway is due to personal expression here that does not directly concern another poster.:icon_wink:
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"
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