and then there's the Godfather

#21
"I stand behind my sense that the hugs portend a sinister element emerging" wrote Observer and I agree.
Remember in the Godfather...big kiss to Fredo and an expression of disappointment by Michael (this is GFII)
and then it's whacked while fishing.
The kiss of death, right?

There's certainly something "different" about Tony B.
He *says* he wants to go legit, for one. He's a massage therapist coming from a mob culture where "massage" is a synonym for 20 bucks and a quickie of some sort. He seems like he belongs in a California spa, not LCN.

Now I'm almost always wrong on my judgment calls so don't go by me, but more alarms for me went off regarding Ralph and his sexuality and the dangers that might cause him within the world of the mob. I just remember the first people that Tony B asks for at Artie's place was his wife and kids. But we'll see. Time will tell.


</p>

Hugs, Hugs Redux

#22
The ominous Tony-to-Tony hugs to which I refer are:

1. We are in the Bada Bing. Tony B. assaults Tony S. with that passively aggressive shtick thing ("mmmm boy are you fat"). Silence descends. The "guys" wait for Tony S's reaction. Tony S. vacillates momentarily, then leans over, giving Tony B. one of those sideways kind of shoulder hugs. At that moment I do think, although I very well could be wrong, that Tony S. was feeling any kind of affection for his cousin. He had just been humiliated...lost face. But, he chose to diffuse the situation with a reactive formation gesture: the hug as opposed to the slug.

2. Now we are in the diner. The two Tonys discuss Tony B's "career" future. Bottom line: Tony B., for all intensive purposes, rejects his cousins plans for him. At the end of the meeeting, again the hug thing. Internally I do not think that each one was feeling huge affection for the other, or any type of male bonding. Tony B. was most likely quite anxious about his rejecting the boss. And, Tony S. was processing this new slight, another narcissistic wounding. Remember it was only recently that Dr. Melfi had also declined Tony, citing her reservations regarding his moral choices. A double whammy. Bottom line this hug was another defense against tension...conflict...ongoing rivalry(?).

Fly, Sofia...rich posts. ~OE (On hiatus from Board for a week)


</p>

Re: Hugs Redux...

#24
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>BTW, I just thought of two more, probably meaningless oblique or subtextual elements: Uncle Junior remarks that Tony B is a "f------ wierdo if you ask me". And the ring on the cell phone Tony S gave Tony B plays the tune "We Are the Champions" . . . by, of course, Queen.:-)<hr></blockquote>

FOMW, I have to say, I'm impressed with your analytical viewpoints and never expected this post to progress this far. My only concern was the fact that there was too much affection going on in this episode than usual, and it's obvious now, I'm not the only one who feels this way.

With that said, I really believe David Chase will not make a homosexual character out of Steve Buscemi, and I don't really see Steve accepting this role unless he was really desperate for work (no I'm not saying gay roles are calling for desperate actors), he just has too much talent to take on this type of character. Actors often fit the roles the public wants to see, for example, Arnold Schwarzenegger was a nobody in the first Terminator, but in Terminator 2 he was a good guy, why? Because the public simply would not accept him as another bad Terminator. Another example is Eddie Murphy, I know myself, I'll never forget the raunchy standup acts Delirious & Raw which was great comedy, but now he's one of America's favorite family icons and we'll never see him do an act like that again.

So with this in mind, David Chase should not create a gay character of Steve, I just wouldn't buy it. I would be very disappointed if he did, and according to other viewpoints expressed in this topic thread, so would other people. I think it would be a bad career move on Steve's part.

</p>

Re: Hugs Redux...

#25
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>he just has too much talent to take on this type of character. Actors often fit the roles the public wants to see, . . .<hr></blockquote>

I have to disagree, Acquiesce. First, Buscemi is no where near the "leading man"/commercially viable actor that either Schwarzenegger or Eddie Murphy are/were. His name will not greenlight a major studio production, and he alone won't "put butts in seats". I dare say that nobody in my family even knows his name (and my brother in particular sees a LOT of movies).

And, frankly, I'm certain that's just the way Buscemi likes it. He is a quirky character actor with a penchant for unusual roles in mostly small films and a very good reputation among his peers. He's the kind of actor that thrives on doing something different with every project because he's driven first and foremost by creative consdierations.

It's for precisely these reasons that I think he would gravitate to an intelligently-written gay wiseguy role. The concept is obviously quirky and offbeat and different from anything he's done that I've ever seen. And for obvious reasons, he wouldn't be playing stereotypical "gayness". There's nothing in Tony B's dress, speech, or mannerisms that suggests homosexuality, and there never could have been, else he wouldn't have ever been in the mob to begin with. So if in fact Chase is headed that direction, the material given Buscemi will all be laced with subtlety and subtext and a vague sense that the character is troubled on the inside and is trying to hide it from his cronies -- exactly the kind of stuff that excites good actors. Then perhaps there will be an explicit scene much later on that confirms it all.

I still think it makes for an incredible conflict, one that has not been intelligently treated before. In fact, "The Mexican" is the only precedent I know of, and it was hardly realistic or intelligent. For these reasons, and, again, because of the historical precedent in New Jersey's DeCavalcante family, I think it is certainly something David Chase would find very interesting and would consider doing. Whether he is in fact doing it remains to be seen.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonmelfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 3/18/04 2:23 pm

Re: Hugs Anyone? (Could Tony B be gay)?

#26
I saw it that the whole Tony/Tony hug thing was initiated by Tony S.
Tony B seemed uncomfortable with, as he seemed with all the mafia stuff.
Tony S was happy to see his long lost cousin at first (hugs all round), but as time went on the hugs seemed to become more desperate or plaintive, as though he was trying to hold it all together.
When Tony B came out, he was hoping for a return to the old rat pack days, a simpler more carefree time, when in reality, Tony's life is falling apart, no wife, no kids, no home, and now even his big plans for his returning cousin are snubbed.
Tony B wanting to go legit is a judgement on Tony S, and as we know, he doesnt handle criticism well.
He resents Tony B not needing him, its doing him out of his role as the one they all depend on.
Those hugs speak volumes, and its our own tony who's talking.....

</p>
Post Reply

Return to “Episode 5.02: Rat Pack”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron