teeth

#41
negative dreams such as teeth falling out is actually one of the most common, disturbing dreams that occur in the general population. It is definitely an unnerving experience for people and often causes and individual to seek out an explanation for the dream. There are many interpretations as to what it means, such as uncertainty about the future or even death. I think both interpretations seem appropriate here.

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Where is the forum for this episode?

#42
When will the forum be put up for this episode?

Man what an odd episode. This was definately the oddest Sopranos episode ever. So much symbolism and so much room for interpertation and analysis. I think the teath falling out symbolized his decaying. What do you all think of the next weeks preview? It looks like the NY vs NJ war fires up and Tony B is about to go to the fishes. I loved that threat Johnny Sack gives Tony, that he will "reign a storm down on him and his family that he has never seen." Wow, will Tony S stand for that?? I can't wait for next week. And who else was disappointed the episode was 10 minutes shorter than normal. I know there have been some 50 min episodes, but most especially lately have been an hour.

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Re: also the "scrooge" analogy

#43
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Also it was quite interesting, that Tony in the dream goes into the kitchen, talks to Carmela, and the Christmas Carol is playing on tv and she says "thats your life" And you see Scrooge being shown whats ahead by the "ghost of christmas future"

Scrooge is a character who has it all in the present, and doesn't realize he has no future. Very intriguing!<hr></blockquote>

I thought that this was the part of "A Christmas Carol" where Scrooge was finished with the ghosts and was trying to repent. I think his when he asked whether Christmas was over (while holding a bag of loot) was to Tiny Tim's mother as Scrooge rushes to set things right.

It's been a while since I've seen "ACC" but this was my take.

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Re: teeth

#46
IMO, the teeth falling out symbolizes what we've seen play out through the season: Tony is losing the ruthless resolve to kill in many situations where the "rules" of the Mafia call for it. He should have killed Feech (something the Slate mob experts echoed) but elected instead to send him back to prison, something that could easily come back to bite him when Feech gets out if not before.

Tony should have killed Christopher TWICE by now, once for the drug thing and especially for shooting up Tony's car and coming into a public place firing a gun at him. But he let his personal regard for him stand in the way.

And Tony S should have killed Tony B after learning that he violated his express policy in the NY war by taking out Peeps. Yet he promoted him instead because of his guilt over the hijacking thing and because he is "family".

In the dream, Tony is told he has to take out Tony B by the voice on the phone. Vin Makazian asks him in the bathroom whether he's ready to do the "thing" and Tony says he is. Yet there is no gun behind the toilet, and he shows up on the street without a gun. One of the angry mob asks "why he didn't stop this", and he has no answer. Then when he tries to shoot the old high school coach, the coach tells Tony he's unprepared as usual. When Tony tries to prove otherwise, his clip splatters to the ground and his bullets disintegrate to mush when he tries to pick them up.

Teeth are used to cut, shred, and grind and are generally the symbols of animal ferocity and potency. Phrases like "it has no bite" or "he's been defanged" or "there's no teeth to it" reflect the identification of teeth with this capacity to do damage.

I predict Tony S will NOT be able to kill Tony B, as he has been unable to do so far, and the consequences of that failure re inciting Johnny Sac aren't too hard to guess, as the previews for next week suggest.

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Tony and change

#47
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I thought that this was the part of "A Christmas Carol" where Scrooge was finished with the ghosts and was trying to repent. I think his when he asked whether Christmas was over (while holding a bag of loot) was to Tiny Tim's mother as Scrooge rushes to set things right.<hr></blockquote>

Including "A Christmas Carol" in the dream sequence was interesting. It definitely added to the theme of change that has been prevalent this season. First with Tony B. trying to "go straight" with the massage thing, and then Adriana trying to get Christopher to leave the mob world behind and leave to somewhere far away from it all.
Tony S. seems to be at a crossroads - perhaps he is now realizing that to salvage his marriage he is going to have to change. I don't now if to him that means leaving the mob thing, but I think he knows that he needs to change in some ways if he can hope to get his marriage back together again. Certainly fidelity is something he needs to grasp. Funny how his faithfulness will be tested with Valentina. Does he write her off now that she may be permanently disfigured and thus no longer the sexual object Tony appreciates her for? That was clearly on his mind when he was probing Tony B. for info. about burn victims.
Another telling part of the dream sequence was the interaction he had with his old football coach, who told him how he had high hopes for Tony, only to watch him fall into the wrong crowd and take "the easy way out." (ie. a life of crime). This reflected how Tony B. gave up on the massage therapy career and chose the path of less resistance in going back to crime and easy money. Perhaps Tony S. is feeling pangs of remorse for not pursuing an honest (albiet much more difficult) life. When early on in this season when Dr. Melfi gave him her honest evaluation of what kind of guy she thinks he is, Tony didn't handle it very well at all.

Wow, there was tons from this episode. Definitely one that is going to require another viewing.

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Re: Tony and change

#48
Due to the lengthy dream some stuff was overlooked. Personally I think the Angelo Garepe hit was the greatest hit in the show's history. The garroting wire, the trunk, the wrapping paper, the wink-wink at Frank Vincent murdering someone in a trunk, the line "you couldn't stay retired?", the gore from the gunblasts, and the final comedic running gag about Phil's car getting banged up... Excellent.

I'm sad we couldn't see what must have been an amazing shootout with Tony B. and the Leotardo Brothers, but it would have messed with the continuing dream and the dream version of it was just cool.

The return of so many dead characters was great, and I loved the final argument with Tony and his Coach, about what he should have become. It reminded me of the Neo-Architect dialogue in the Matrix, only 100 times better at what it was trying to accomplish.

All in all, one of my personal faves. A+. There's no possibly way I can wait until next week.

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Random thoughts

#50
The biggest impressions I took from the dream were: 1) Artie's presence represents Tony's going straight. Artie saved Tony from the chasing masses, and he's one of the few people not in the Family that Tony respects. Tony's mind seemed to have used him as the Light of Hope. His subconscious is absolutely screaming at him to clean up his life and go straight. 2) Lots of stuff on being "too late": to save Tony B. from prison long ago; to stop Tony B. now; to live a normal life as a football coach; to save AJ from being a loser. Lot of guilt there. He tried to kill the coach, meaning (possibly) to stay with the Family, but the bullets turned to chocolate. 3) Tony's watching of movies is big time escapism for him. He even says so, they're "better than real life". They certainly are in his subconscious, with (what sounded like) Ray Liotta on the phone (the man who played Henry Hill, and referred to by Carmine as 'the man upstairs '- possibly he is god in Tony's mind, he went straight and didn't suffer for it); Bening from Bugsy; the Godfather allusions; the foreigners comically chasing him with dogs, etc.

Other things I noticed but didn't understand: the valet says the term "long term parking", which is the title of the next episode. Also the bellboy's name was Jesus, kind of strange in an episode full of symbolism (although that part wasn't part of the dream). And Paulie was in the crowd at the car with Tony B. and Phil - a very quick shot, he was barely seen. I bet a freeze frame would turn up some more familiar faces.

The only thing I can surmise from Jackie Jr. not being there is either the actor was unavailable, or the character isn't very important in Tony's mind. To those who asked above, Richie was in the back seat, burping and annoying Tony - as most of the dead guys did. Tracee was not in the show, but based on the pic on HBO, was used as a momentary substitute for Meadow in the Bening scene (sitting next to Finn/AJ), and later cut. In my opinion, this would have symbolized Meadow as an Innocent, just as Tracee was. I don't know why they cut it because it would've added to the show to see her. She had a brief part but stuck in a lot of people's minds, especially those braces. And since we saw her quite clearly very dead, she would've been a good ghost. I notice that actress never had any other work before or after her one Sopranos appearance, I'm sure she feels bad they cut her, especially in an episode that was 10 minutes short?!

On the "job" Tony was asked to do, I thought all along it was to whack Tony B. - but then Dead Ralphie told him he was "taking him to the job", but it was his own house, which has nothing to do with Tony B. Perhaps the job was twofold and also had something to do with Carmela.

Good as it was, this show was not quite on the level of Funhouse because that show also contained the tense resolution to the Pussy problem. There wasn't a dull second in that show, it was imo the masterpiece of the series. In this one, I thought the scene with the coach went on a bit too long. The dream built mightily in tension up until the gym, there were many possible directions to take at that point to make this a truly knockout episode, we're sweating bullets at that point, they have us, BUT they chose to go with the coach for the rest of it, which kinda brought it down, even if it did fulfill the valid point they wanted to make. And they shorted us out of 10 minutes, for some reason. Still, the dream was riveting; an outstanding and meaningful piece of writing. David Lynch might have been a better director for this episode, although Allen Coulter did a fine job.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p196.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=songlife>songlife</A> at: 5/17/04 1:10 am

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