i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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hi. ok. i hope there are some serious Sopranos fans that still look at this site. i know this is like 2 years late but i just became obsessed with season six of the sopranos. i'm nearly positive that christopher flips right after he kills JT.
my theory:

in his final scene, like in his first scene, he is wearing a hat. only this time it has a wire in it. remember the only other time a character wore a ballcap on the sopranos? yup, Jack Massarone in the "MOST" or Museam of Science and Trucking hat provided by the FBI. We know they eventually whack Massaronne but never indicate that they caught on to the "hat trick". With CM it's a Cleaver hat of course.

why did CM shot JT in the first place? because he at that moment realized that was totally alone. the only person who ever related to him was adriana and thanks to him she was dead.

Remember when Adriana told him that she was talking to the feds? she confided in him because she was stuck and he actually looked like he might flip then. remember when he was ranting about how much he hated tony? conventional wisdom is that never actually considering flipping. but i think he did. he didn't decide to not flip until he goes to the gas station. He's standing there fueling up his $60,000 Hummer he watches a poor family getting into the crappy car. at that moment he decides to not flip but to instead go to tony and sell out Adriana. Several times later he clearly indicates that he regrets this decision. He changed his mind and she died. several times in the series including later in JT's apartment, he obviously regrets it.

When he goes to see JT Adriana his soulmate is dead, he is totally alienated from Tony and the rest of the mob family, JT and their supposedly profound AA family is all he has left for comfort. he talks seriously about flipping. when he realizes that even the JT relationship (by extension his AA family) is lost to him, CM knows he is all alone. it goes through his mind about what a huge mistake he made with Adriana. Once again he decides that he will flip and pay everyone back. but this time to ensure that he doesn't sober up and change his mind again, he kills JT. He knows that killing an emmy winning writer who is also a well known associate and a civilian will result in a murder rap which will force him to flip or fry. He removes his own option to change his mind.

and where was the blowback for jt's murder? tony would have been super pissed when he found out. apparently he never found out. how can this be? the mysterious cold-blooded murder of a hollywood screenwriter with mob connections (Clever) didn't make the news? it must have been covered up then. by who? we see CM leave the scene. he just walks out. remember when tony killed ralph? all the precautions they took? of course the cops covered it up as part of the christopher flipping deal.

by the way, notice how the car flips several times in the accident? he literally flips! almost taking tony down.

after the wreck CM tells tony that he needs to get a cab because he's on drugs and is afraid he'l lose his license. do you really think CM is afraid of losing a drivers license? especially when he must know he needs an ambulance? especially again when you consider that CM would never voluntarily tell Tony that he's on drugs unless he was trying to cover up something even worse! What could be worse? Remember the beating tony gave him after he got high after Adriannas death. No, what he's afraid of his that tony may see the paramedics find the wire.

also, what drove CM to get high the night of the accident anyway? aside from the drama leading up to killing JT, and the actual murder, all else seemed normal. i think he slipped because he couldn't deal with the guilt and shame of what he was doing.

so far i'm having trouble finding anyone who will even entertain this notion. it's strange how people love CM so much that they won't even consider the possibility that he'd follow up on a threat that he makes more than once.

anyone??

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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Hi there jimithicke and great first post! Well, i am no big fan of Christufuh for sure, and never was one to be honest. And i do think what you say has merit. There were other characters with ball caps - for example, Vito is wearing the Notre Dame cap when he meets Tony at the mall after Vito was on the lam and wanted back in. Who knows- could Vito have been wired too? He did have his brother or brother-in-law spying from above on the balcony. i need to re-watch that set of epis to get a better feel for what you propose. Thats pretty funny what you said about the car flipping. i mean- you're right. It would be very "Chaseian" to have that parallel meaning. :smile:

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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jimithicke, welcome to the forum.:smile:

Your ideas obviously reflect a great deal of thought, and you make some interesting points. I personally believe the ball cap was only important because of the "Cleaver" logo that was on the front, though. It was very prominent as Tony was suffocating Chris and prominent again when it sat atop the bloody pile of Chris' clothing, which Tony eyed from his stretcher. (The logo was also prominent on the mug Tony drank coffee from the morning after and then angrily tossed into the woods outside his home.)

The actual cleaver (hatchet) in the graphic and the story of the movie "Cleaver" symbolically underscore what I believe was the hidden and dominant motive for Tony killing Chris: hatred and resentment towards his own father for grooming and bringing him into mob life. If this theory sounds as wacky as I imagine it might on first blush, I'd be happy to link to some other threads where it's been discussed. I just didn't want to bore bada and the regulars by repeating them again here.:icon_wink:
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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I was watching Cold Cuts last night, and thought about this thread.

The scene where Adriana suggests leaving, for me, really showed Christopher in his true light. Egotistical, power hungry and most importantly, loyal.

I think the 'monologue' went something like this:

'I'll pick up the writing again, but from a position of great wealth and power, and as for the male modelling, I'd be a success, but I don't want to be around those people. I'm a soldier Adriana, when are you going to understand that?'

That is in no way verbatim, it's transcribed from memory, but I think it covers the gist.

In that sentence it has shown that Christopher, along with Adriana, has never even contemplated the world of real/actual work. It says to me that if he wasn't in the mob, he'd want to be doing something else with ridiculous money for little exertion.

I genuinely think this speaks volumes about Christopher and his mindset, there is no way, at least no way in my mind, he would ever flip. Yes, I agree with the facts that he is clearly feeling alone, probably regretting the Adriana stuff, but ultimately, I don't think he'd flip.

As he said, he's a soldier, when are we going to understand that?

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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FlyOnMelfisWall wrote:jimithicke, welcome to the forum.:smile:

Your ideas obviously reflect a great deal of thought, and you make some interesting points. I personally believe the ball cap was only important because of the "Cleaver" logo that was on the front, though. It was very prominent as Tony was suffocating Chris and prominent again when it sat atop the bloody pile of Chris' clothing, which Tony eyed from his stretcher. (The logo was also prominent on the mug Tony drank coffee from the morning after and then angrily tossed into the woods outside his home.)

The actual cleaver (hatchet) in the graphic and the story of the movie "Cleaver" symbolically underscore what I believe was the hidden and dominant motive for Tony killing Chris: hatred and resentment towards his own father for grooming and bringing him into mob life. If this theory sounds as wacky as I imagine it might on first blush, I'd be happy to link to some other threads where it's been discussed. I just didn't want to bore bada and the regulars by repeating them again here.:icon_wink:
There's no way you could ever be boring Fly!! In fact, i've been plannign to jump in that other thread thats been taking off with such a good discussion, but i can't stay up late with my work schedule, and i keep going to bed feeling left out lately!

As for Christopher flipping- well, i don't know, but i do think its in the realm of possibility. FLipping at first glance seems so traiterous. But really, in the real world, it would be the first step towards some sort of redemption, and i do think CHris had that in him, seeing as how he did get into the recovery/re-hab process. From everything i have ever heard, that is supposed to be extrememely difficult and takes great personal courage for someone with an addictive nature. i guess his chronic relapses really did turn me off- i just could never generally like his character except for moments here and there, so its hard for me to be fair about this discussion. i think i owe CHristopher another chance. No doubt, though, Imperioli is brilliant- did a fantastic job.

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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What you say about Chris towards the end is true, for sure. The marriage and child with Kelli was never going to work. Adriana was his soul-mate, totally. And yes, he is alone and alienated. But I still don't think he would flip. He might KILL Tony but he wouldn't flip! Daft as that sounds, that's what I believe.
Don't forget that when Chris shoots J.T. he is pissed as a newt. A recovering alcoholic has come off the wagon and is cracking up. He starts ranting and mouthing off about "bringing the house of cards down" etc. Now you take the position that this could be evidence as to his "mind-set", as to where his head is at and could have led to him flipping. I actually take the opposite view. I think, having said far too much to an "outsider", pissed or not, his Mafia training kicked in and he did the only thing he could-kill J.T. He realises he has said too much. J.T. says "Chris,you're in the Mafia"! and this acts as a wake up to him and through the haze of alcohol the "soldier" in him comes to the fore and kills J.T. If anything this shows his loyalty, IMO and doesn't hint at him flipping.
Besides, why have Christopher flip only to have him killed before anything can come of it ? See what I'm getting at ? At least if we, the viewers, knew he had flipped there would be some value to it in a dramatic sense. I personally don't think Chris flipped but it's an interesting angle and will keep it in mind during the next re-watch.

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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I must say that I agree with the idea that Christopher would not flip. If he was to do it, the occasion was all there when Adriana confessed to him. He chose the life, like Vito, with all the nasty consequences. In the car crash, Tony finally came to terms with the fact that Chris could not shake his addiction, ever, and would pose a great and growing risk to Tony (Christopher knew about Ralphie's fate, for example). Hence, the snuff.
biker 2
from frigid Ottawa Canada (near Harpo!)

Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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biker2 wrote:I must say that I agree with the idea that Christopher would not flip. If he was to do it, the occasion was all there when Adriana confessed to him. He chose the life, like Vito, with all the nasty consequences. In the car crash, Tony finally came to terms with the fact that Chris could not shake his addiction, ever, and would pose a great and growing risk to Tony (Christopher knew about Ralphie's fate, for example). Hence, the snuff.
Which brings up another question, if in fact Chris was an informant - why was Tony not arrested for the nurder of Ralphie? Chris knew where the body was and the bag with the head in it. There's the proof to finally put Tony behind bars. But as far as we know, that did not happen.

As well, I'd have to say I don;t find that Chris changed at all. By the end of the show, he remained a drug addict and psychotic. Other than attempts at recovery, what really changed about him?

Finally, I think the hat thing is just not true. Chris wore a hat in the first season, others have mentioned Vito wearing a hat, Tony even wears a hat when on his boat. Watch the full series again and see how many people actually do wear ball caps. :icon_wink:
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Re: i'm certain that Christopher flipped before dying!

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hey everybody,
Thanks for your thoughts on an issue that is now about 2 years old! i was afraid i wouldn't find any reasonable people to have an intelligent conversation on this.

since i don't know how to quote people i'l try to remember all the good points that ya'll make.

Hat
on the hat...yes, i was wrong, there are a few other instances of characters wearing hats. none as prominent as when CM wears one to the meeting with Phil. i'm pretty sure that the last time we see CM wearing one was in the very first episode (again chauffeuring tony. i'm sure that this is intended as a bit of a bookend for his character), when he was noticeably younger. when i saw the accident episode that was the first thing i thought of when i saw the hat - i reminded me how far his character has come since we first see him. his character evolves so much. more than any other.

Why he didn't flip with Aide
in his speech to Adriana where he tells her that he's a soldier: Rich i think you're quote is accurate and it illustrates my point
..'I'll pick up the writing again, but from a position of great wealth and power, and as for the male modelling, I'd be a success, but I don't want to be around those people. I'm a soldier Adriana, when are you going to understand that?'

this is intended to be funny. He thinks he's a writer? and could be a male model? This is a ridiculous statement made by a young cocky and inexperienced thug. What does this tell you about his mind set at this moment? and don't forget he almost flipped back then! how else can you explain the scene at the gas station?

As for:
"If he was to do it, the occasion was all there when Adriana confessed to him." Again he was a different man at that time.

There is a huge gap between where he is when Aide asks him to flip and that night at JT's apartment. he goes through so much in that time, not the least of which, the death of Aide, the birth of his own daughter, and a huge fight with Paulie. He is increasingly alienated because he is sober. he was pushed and evolved away from tony. he's gone.

As for:
"Besides, why have Christopher flip only to have him killed before anything can come of it ? See what I'm getting at ? At least if we, the viewers, knew he had flipped there would be some value to it in a dramatic sense."
There was fantastic dramatic sense it. If we were watching and studying veeeeery hard we would've seen it at the time. this is challenging stuff to be sure, that what makes it so cool. ever watch a david lynch movie? same thing.

it's a good question as to why would the feds not just find ralphs body as proof that tony killed him. i think the answer is that they wanted to get phil on tape too. remember that phil is a boss too. it's a pretty important meeting when two bosses get together for business. once chris is dead they lost thier link between tony and ralph.

still no one has addressed probably my most important question: why did tony never learn of JT's murder? it must have been in the paper right? unless it was covered up somehow...but by who?

or how about the symbolism of the hummer flipping over and over almost ruining both Chris and tony? nothing there?

or why after wreck did chris want a cab instead of an ambulance? he rationale at the time was that he was high and didn't want to lose his license. he was clearly high but fear of losing his license is clearly a lie. so what is his real reason? and why lie?
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