<blockquote>Quote:<hr>AJ's deft handling of the potentially explosive situation with the three neighborhood gangbanning thugs was set up in clear contrast to Little Carmine's incompetence at brokering a peace between Tony and Phil<hr></blockquote>


Another take on this is that it shows a similarity between Carmine Jr. and AJ --- both are the namesakes of mob bosses and both seem to prefer diplomacy over violence. (Carmine Jr. backed away from a possible war in season 5)

both also seem desperate for acceptance and respect - but either unsure how to get it or simply unable due to their own limitations

</p>

The "Kaisha" episode was one of the most disappointing television experiences that I have ever encountered. I'm not even sure if I want to watch the final eight episodes.

</p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>First we see them having sex and her saying he ruined her dress, and how he "can't stop thinking about fucking you all the time". She mentions being a jew. The obviously have some history at that point. Then later, they apparently meet at a AA meeting? Is it the same girl? Did he mention something about hooking up with her before the meeting and she just forgot? Very confused about this.<hr></blockquote>

First. we see them having sex.

Second. we get a flashback showing how they met. We are shown her thinking about the flashback after we see it to make it clear that she was remembering. And even if we didn't see her thinking, aren't we so over-used to flashbacks in cinema at this point that it was obvious? I liked the backwards movement -- it fit somehow. there is nothing simple about this episode. When he moved the story backwards so suddenly, it made me remember Julianna walking down the sidewalk in that skirt and boots when they first noticed her -- just a hottie, no name. someone to f**k. the two of them talking there, and now look where they are. This little thing, insignificant, is not so little. But back to the question . . . A little quick, yes. but not that confusing.







</p>

I read all of the posts yesterday, before I saw the episode. I was so sad about it all ending this way. Top to bottom, what a pronouncement overall from these posts. I also read the msn article, not much better. But when I watched the show this afternoon, I loved it. Subtle, but exact. I was so surprised at how wonderful it was.

No, meadow did not die. (that is what I was expecting, her or AJ or something traumatic). good. too easy.

I thought every minute of this episode moved something forward. Maybe not what I wanted moved, but it's not my show. The christmas scene, compared to the opening sequence of this season -- who hasn't changed? changed might be the wrong word, let's try, who hasn't been affected by Tony? and thereby, everything tony is going through, as he is the center in this sopranos universe to us.

why the seeming need to leave us hanging that has been expressed? why not just leave us with lots to think about?

I do agree w/the comments about too much vito. this show was too late for the impact of that storyline. last year, maybe. this year, not so much. some things really are about timing. but it was likely pitched and sold before the mountain boys. however, the image of vito in leather and that deep dish song just makes me smile every time I hear it.

I'm pleased with the episode and the season. There is enough to think about for the few months until it's ended. More than enough. I will only be bothered if the last 8 are a blow-out mob story to make a point. I want more of what we got this season. Tony's comments to Melfi this episode seem to sum it up.



</p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I enjoyed Ginny Sack staying involved by showing up for Phil's hospital stay...showed how tactically intelligent she truly is.<hr></blockquote>

I have been thinking about that, as well, Hagen. Initially I read your comment, "tactically" as "tactile-ly." you know, as in feeling. But you see her presence as a politcal strategy to keep up appearances for John? You're probably right. I was thinking along more sentimental veins, in that she appears sensitive, emotional... I loved Michael Imperioli's observations about her as an actor in which he describes her as painstakingly cautious and seemingly unaware of her dramatic artistry.



</p>

Let's face it, folks, Davis Chase has
obviously bit off more than he can
chew and assimilate intellectually,
aesthetically, sociologically, spiritually,
and pragmatically with his creation
of "The Sopranos."

I attribute this colossal misfire to his
being brought up as a Baptist. When
Tony declares to Melfi, "I am a Catholic,"
however cynically hypocritical Chase
meant to imply about the mafia and
Tony's moral turmoils, Chase has
lost his grip on all of the mystery
involved in this basic stance of
the universal, Catholic state of mind.

Chase simply doesn't get it, anymore
than GW Bush does in relation to
the realities of cultural and religious
differences and acceptances.

Chase can't keep burning both ends of
the religious candles forever. He's proven
himself to be an outsider, a perhaps embittered
turncoat, a politically-correct convert against
the whole Italian-American struggle
to fullfill the American dream, Italian-Style.

Chase and HBO are worse than the FOX
news channel at this point. His success
is strictly within the mediocrity of TV and
will probably remain so, even in the last
8 episodes of "The Sopranos." The
verisimilitudes of Chase's series remain
as tense and taut as ever. But can he
ever get to the authentic bottom of the
whole mafioso dynamic in the Endgame?

At least Scorcese and Coppola added more
true and magnificent Italian opera to their
works. I did, however, appreciate hearing
the Rolling Stones in the "Kaisha" episode.

</p>

Monadax, I have mused both privately and openly about Chase's experience as a non-Catholic Italian. I would imagine that this religious exclusion within a culture that is heavily and elementally religiously-centric would have yielded some complications, and as you suggest, bitterness (perhaps) within the Chase psyche.

I am also thinking back to Episode I of this season in which Agent Harris mentions something about American tastes, then spontaneously vomits.

Lastly, I am also mulling over reported remarks made by the Furio actor in which he alleges that Chase now sees us all as essentially...monkeys.

In any event, what a ride it has been.

</p>

I agree Monadax. Chase doesn't get the "Catholic" thing. I think he sees it as only a religion--he has no clue about real Catholicism--the culture. As a Catholic myself, I sometimes wince as his "Catholic" references. He so misses the cultural dynamic.

</p>

Overall, the entire episode was a dissapointment, especially compared to previous seasons that featured some closure, or at least a cliff hanger, but this episode basically did nothing much to advance anything of significance.

Yes, I know that you can't "really" consider it a season finale, as there are 8 more episodes in the works.

But still, after 12 episodes, you'd expect some plot advancement. In the end, nothing really has.

I was also bothered (really, for the enitre season) by the apparent 180s people are doing in their behavior.

AJ suddenly a caring father figure? Where the hell did that come from? He's always been mean to other kids, torturing them needlessly. Just because he's got the hots for some woman all of a sudden he's a responsible adult?

Agent Harris warning Tony about a possible retribution hit on someone within his crew? Agent Harris would be the last person to do something like that. Yes, Tony has always treated the FBI guys ok, but Agent Harris knows Tony had a number of their informants killed including Adrianna and Big Pussy. All of a sudden, all is forgiven, and oh by the way, NY wants to whack someone in NJ?

I'd perhaps understand it if David Chase had foreshadowed this action by having the agency discuss letting Tony know to plant seeds of getting Tony to flip. Since this wasn't done, and you'd have to assume the FBI knows it wouldn't work, why would Agent Harris bother?

This whole season is nothing but changes, complete role reversals. Most of them utterly unexpected and not quite proper.

Hell, even Artie, the wimp, managed to beat up Bennie, a street thug.

Come on.



</p>

One can of worms....coming up !

HOMT - What "catholic thing" is Chase not getting?

Exactly how should a good catholic mob boss be portrayed?

</p>