Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#1
Fly, I am highjacking your idea....I'm sorry about that.

Continuing an idea initiated by FOMW many episodes ago and reinitiated on the Episode comments thread for "Cold Stones", I'd like the feedback on the dynamics on Tony's relapse into "extracurricular activity" while Carm is away in Paris.

Before she leaves, Tony gives her a Vuitton wallet (I think?) full of cash. Her comment sometime later (I think?) is that she expects him to do "whatever boys do" while he's alone and she's away.

First question---is this an invitation to trouble given Tony's epic fornications? Does Carm think he's reformed or does she simply not care; is it, as Tony tells Melfi, a trade off---she gets the spec house (or jewelry, or cash), Tony makes sure he's discreet.

Second question--about the act itself. Apart from the joking discussion of cunnilingus that turned around Junior a few seasons ago and Carm's offhand comment that she might get that once a year, on her birthday, I can't remember the giving or receiving of oral sex anywhere in the Carm and Tony marriage relationship. Why is this? Tony obviously enjoys it. Do we assume that he's never asked Carm for it due to shyness? Because it's too "Dirty" for his wife to do? Because she'd say no?

In Tony's mind---do you think this counts as an "affair"? I can imagine him rationalizing it---it was only oral, it was a business transaction.

On the other hand, can you imagine his reaction if Carm "only" received or gave O.S. in Paris?

Blushingly, I retreat and wait for your comments.

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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#2
Just another barrier, finally, down.

I'm not trying to squelch this thread or anything, but I don't think there is too much to read into it. It was a blow job. In my opinion, this entire season has been about the slow change from New Tony (Tony as he woke up from the coma) to Old Tony.

He was a changed man at first, and then, each episode he let more and more of his old ways come back. First violence, with the beatdown of the bodyguard. Then Theft, with the wine robbery. Then came deception, screwing Carm out of her spec-house and lying to her about it. One of the last to go, so far, has been adultery, but we saw that one fall on Sunday.

Honestly, trying to figure out wether or not Carm gave him "permission" or if oral sex counts as "sex", just comes off (to me) as people wanting to rationalize Tony's behavior, rather than admit that he is not a "changed man" anymore. At least not right now.



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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#4
This is a legitimate and purposeful foray, Sofia. You have noted the disconnect between T's chaste marital congress (heck, Carm and T "do it" under the covers!) and the more primal relations he has with the Bing ladies and goomars. This is all about the Madonna-Whore complex which has been especially prevalent in Catholic societies, in which men just cannot allow themselves to experience and/or fantasize "dirty" stuff with their wives, the mothers of their children. So, they split-off down and dirty libidinous activies with bad girls (the whores), and save the chaste relations for their wives. We've seen some heat between T and Carm, but they seem sexually rather prim with one and other.

You have never noticed T orally giving or getting from Carm because most likely this does not exist in their sexual repertoire...Carm is the Madonna.

I think that what's her name's giving Tony head was just her little way of saying thanks for the ride. It was a casual transaction, yet an act too taboo for his marital chamber.

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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#5
There was one time in Season 5 just after Carm and Tony got back together and they are in the closet. I think Carm complains about something with her wrist and Tony says something like "I got job to help you with that". They start making out and I think briefly Carm motions to get on her knees - so this is one other time Carm might have given Tony a blowjob.

Also, does anybody else think that Carm saying "do what boys do" what she really meant is eat lots of food, watch sports, fart and belch, etc.? I realize there might be some sort of double-take on what she says, meaning it could mean more than one thing depending on who is listening.

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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#6
Carm's "Do what boys do" was just a statement (from her point of view). I think that its actually kind of rediculous to think that she would give him permission to cheat on her. That is so far out of Carm's character as to just be an impossibility.

From a writing standpoint I do think that it was put in there as foreshadowing, but that's it. Chase wanted us to wonder if Tony was going to cheat as, I'm sure, most of us thought of Tony cheating when she said that. He then kept us with a little suspense going into the BJ scene to. "Is Tony getting head? Is he having a panic attack?" Then, reveal to the B.J.

It was a well written little series of events, but Carm's words were for the audience, not for Tony, in my opinion.

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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#7
<span style="color:navy;font-family:century gothic;font-size:small;">I don't believe Tony thinks getting a bj constitutes having an affair or cheating. I agree with the "madonna/whore" complex. I distinctly remember one episode (can't remember the name right now) where Tony and Carm came home from their anniversary dinner and Carm told Tony something to the affect of "don't bother getting a hotel". Tony told Carm she was the mother of his children and Carm told him, "Is that all I am good for"? Tony and Carm's sex life does not give Tony the excitement he yearns for. There sex life is more "vanilla" than Tony likes: most likely missionary position, very little oral sex, etc. Knowing he can get sex anytime, anywhere from a plethora of women is stimulating to him. Remember when Carm mentioned to Fr. Phil that Tony's flings were like a form of masturbation for him? She was busy with the house and the kids and couldn't give Tony the attention he needed. Let's not forget that being in la costa nostra means you have many goomar's. Like Tony told Carm in "Whitecaps" she shouldn't be surprised there are women on the side because she grew up with that. </span>

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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#8
"Do whatever it is boys do when they are by themselves": Carmella can't have any doubt that such a statement is the "go-code" for Tony's sexual infidelity. Although their sex life has vastly improved over seasons past, Tony never told her he would be faithful, just that he wouldn't rub her nose in it publicly.

Tony getting oral satisfaction: According to one prominent Oxford alumnus, it's not sex. Despite this the fact remains that Tony was receiving sexual satisfaction from someone other than his wife. Restricitng it to oral pleasure shows that Tony isn't completely digressing, choosing instead to live by the wisdom of Benjamin Franklin, "Everything in moderation."

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Re: Discussing the BJ: Tony and the Bing Girl

#9
There was a hint of Tony's potential infidelity a couple of episodes back when he was talking to Melfi about his agreement with Carm. Melfi commented, "but you said there weren't many extracurricular activities since you got out of the hospital." The key word there was much...it really caught my attention after Tony agreed with her...because it left a shade of gray. By not much did they mean...not at all, or just a little?

As one poster noted...we just may be seeing the gradual transition of the "new Tony" back to the old one. And if that is the case I believe such a regression would culminate in Tony finally taking part in murder again.

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