"Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#1
DISMAY. That's what I felt when Tony said this to AJ. I had speculated earlier, when AJ accused his mother about knowing that he had tried to get a gun. She didn't know about it period. If she HAD known, she would have flipped out. She never found out. DISMAY.

DISMAY. AJ gathers a huge hunting knife, goes to the funeral home, and comes within 6 feet of murder. Tony gets him off, and warns him "your mother doesn't find out about this". DISMAY.

Tony and the mafia family have encouraged within AJ an unwillingness to talk about his problems, and have destroyed Carmella's ability to deal with the issues that AJ is facing. IT IS NOT HELPFUL TO AJ TO HIDE HIS ACTIONS FROM HIS OWN MOTHER. I haven't seen much discussion of this, but what kind of message is Tony sending here? Especially immediately following Melfi's advice that Tony and Carmella not undermind each other? This seems like a MAJOR issue, that Tony is encouraging AJ's secrecy, and almost directly after Melfi told him this was the worst thing he could do.

What do you guys think? This seems HUGE to me...

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Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#2
I dont think it would help anyone to tell Carmella about A.J's slips. The world of violence and crimes are closed to Carmella, and thats the way Tony wants it. I think Tony feels that this is something between him and his son.

What good would come out of telling Carm about AJ trying to murder his own great uncle? Carmella would probably shut him out, never feel the same way about him again. Tony dosent want that, and for him it´s not that big of deal, he understands why AJ acted as he did. Carmella would also blame Tony for AJ's stunt, and thats another good reason not to tell her.

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Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#3
DGC,

Hope i'm not misunderstanding you but actually I thought the reason Tony did this was purely to protect Carmela in that sense that SHE would be devastated to find out about what AJ did. Refer to Carmela's existing guilt with regards to their childrens' "complicity".

Not that I am suggesting AJ is right to keep it from his mother, but i can understand on some level why Tony would not want Carmela to know - and I think it is far more about protecting her own feelings than saving AJ the consequences of Carmela finding out...


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jimmythefish82>jimmythefish82</A> at: 5/4/06 9:03 am

Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#4
I agree Darngood...I felt dismay too. There was that scene with Bobby and Chris in the hospital about the first (foiled) attempt to get a plan together to off Junior, which they "spared" Carm from, too.

I think of this as less of an attempt to protect AJ or even Carm and more of an attempt on Tony's part to cover his own ass....if he had told Carm of COURSE she would have flipped out (somehow I get the feeling she might find out though, the way the crew gossips, or through Meadow) and you know what, I think in addition to blaming herself and AJ for being a cross to bear, she would have also (and vehemently) blamed Tony...a "You taught him this" thing, or "He's trying to be you" thing. Maybe. Just thinking...


Skaliz....I just read up and you said this much more succinctly than I did. Can you imagine the scene?

Tony to Carm: You're the one who backed down on sending him to military school!

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sofiagiovanna>SofiaGiovanna</A> at: 5/4/06 8:42 am

Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#5
It's true that Tony is going against Melfi's advice re him and Carm being on the same page. But I think Tony isn't trying to protect anyone really. In this ep Carm had been harder on AJ than Tony was. It seemed to me that Tony was generally trying to be easier and more forgiving. His kinder, gentler side.

So I think he doesn't want Carmela to know because he doesn't want her to rage against AJ and tell him how horrible he is, that he is just a cross everyone has to bear. Tony wants to handle AJ with love and forgiveness. Maybe that's a cross that TONY wants to bear.

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Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#6
SofiaG,

Maybe you're right. Certainly before the shooting/NDE I would immediately have jumped to the conclusion Tony just wanted to save his own ass. I'm still not writing off that possibility by any means but maybe now I am looking at the whole thing through rose-tinted glasses, I actually thought it was a genuine attempt by Tony to protect Carmela and be understanding (to a point) about what AJ did. This view was strengthened in my own mind after Tony, having initially berated AJ for what he did, changed his tune when he realised AJ was trying to "do the right thing". Hence "you make me wanna cry".



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Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#7
Great thread on an issue that hadn't received much attention before.

Throughout the series, we've seen how Tony insists on keeping Carmela essentially ignorant of his "business" dealings, so much so that his crew and others on the fringe know they had better keep her in the dark too. But there's been a special reinforcement of that this season: the plastic smiles and cover up as soon as she entered the hospital room when the paramedic shakedown was underway; Tony and Chris keeping AJ's attempt to buy the gun from her; Vito's false but otherwise plausible explanation that he couldn't move the money to Carmela right away, adding that "Tony wouldn't want him to" explain any further; Tony's insistence that Carm not learn of AJ's attempted stabbing; and Rosalie's apology for revealing to Carm that Angie was loansharking.

The latter seems especially interesting because Angie had no qualms about telling Rosalie but hadn't told Carm. After Tony's batting practice on her Cadillac in season 3, she knew better. So when Carmela, as the boss' wife, is more out of the loop than a former boss' widow who has no remaining, intimate male connections to the Mafia, it says a lot about how much information Carmela is missing.

I think we're being reminded of this to help explain how Carmela, who unquestionably loves her children and is extremely concerned about their welfare, could have lived for so many years in her hypocrisy and denial about what Tony's "work" really entails and what effects that work could ultimately have on her children, especially her son. Yes, she's smart enough and has seen enough that she knows, deep down, that Tony has committed "horrible acts", as she says in College. But it's easy to repress that knowledge and live in self deception when the real evidence of it is so intentionally and consistently hidden.

As long as she only has reason to believe that she and Tony are the ones "tainted" by his lifestyle, she can live with it. But if she for one second knew that AJ had tried to kill Junior in emulation of Michael Corleone and in ambition of becoming a mobster, she would be the one decompressing.

Tony's admonition to keep the secret is, IMO, an implicit acknowledgement of this as well as continuation of a tradition.

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Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#8
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The latter seems especially interesting because Angie had no qualms about telling Rosalie but hadn't told Carm. After Tony's batting practice on her Cadillac in season 3, she knew better. So when Carmela, as the boss' wife, is more out of the loop than a former boss' widow who has no remaining, intimate male connections to the Mafia, it says a lot about how much information Carmela is missing.<hr></blockquote>

FOMW,
Maybe this is slightly off the point but I had always thought this would be standard practice particularly in terms of the bosses' wife. As you said, Tony made it clear to his crew (and Angie, separately) that they better keep their mouth shut around Carmela as well. I can't help thinking of Rosalie telling Carmela that she "never really knew how much money there was until AFTER Jack died"...the (acting) boss would always want to protect their immediate family from the details of their business and I thought perhaps that the predominant reason for this (aside from the perhaps obvious reason of sparing their conscience the gory details) would to make them less of a target for the Feds. On that note if Christopher had taken the same attitude with Adriana it maybe wouldnt have even been possible for the feds to flip her. How this ties into series 6, i think the only reason it was more obvious/prominent in the early episodes of this season was to highlight how isolated Carmela would be without Tony - as if it was emphasising her dependence on him as a contrast to his dependence on her throughout his rehabilitation (physically) and subconsciously, throughout his coma.


<blockquote>Quote:<hr>But if she for one second knew that AJ had tried to kill Junior in emulation of Michael Corleone and in ambition of becoming a mobster, she would be the one decompressing.<hr></blockquote>

I agree and think this is the overriding reason why Tony wanted to 'protect' her with regards to AJ's failed stabbing attempt.

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Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#9
<hr />I'm reminded of the scene where Carmella agrees to let AJ move back into the house. One of her conditions was that he let her into his life a little.

But he has never done that. Just as Tony has never let him into his life. What interactions have AJ and Carm had together? Carm used him as a cover for her feelings about Furio. But, what else? She has never tried to share some time with AJ to learn about his life as she has with Meadow. Carm has no credibility when it comes to helping AJ.

Despite living in the same house together, AJ knows almost nothing about his parents real world just as they know almost nothing about his.

So, when he asks them for money for clothes and Carm gives him some money with the restriction that it not be used for any kind of clothes that he wants, she gets the kind of thank you that seems more like a "fuck you".

So, I have to agree with DGC. How in the world could Carm ever help AJ if she knows almost nothing about his real life and his real problems? Tony knows more than Carm, but he certainly doesn't seem to be wanting to give him and real help either.

I'm taken back to the Prolog of this season. I'm not sure how but this poor kid is just doomed save some kind of outside miracle.


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=splishak>Splishak</A> at: 5/4/06 12:02 pm

Re: "Your mother DOES NOT find out about this"

#10
I disagree that Carmela hasn't tried to learn about AJ's life. She just hasn't been very effective. typical of most parents of teenagers.

as pointed out above, carmela definitely would be the one decompensating if she found out about this .. and this might be made much worse if she ends up finding out anyway and has to deal with the added insult of Tony keeping it from her.

Tony should use his 'connections' with the police to get one of them to seriously scare AJ. he also should get him into see Melfi (or at least get a referral) he sees Artie needs it, but tragically not his own son. IMO, it was easier for Tony to agree to send Meadow because he already knew or at least strongly suspected that she 'got' his life goes and the omerta concept.

there's so much more at stake with AJ for so many reasons

while of course it's unfathomable that Tony would allow AJ to reap the consequences of his actions in this case ... this event so far does mark yet another instance where AJ sees that the rules don't apply to him -making the shut out of Carmela that much more tragic

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