Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#31
Hrurusch: Your post contained either a piece of pure speculation or a spoiler. The official episode descriptions and promo materials are fine, but you continued with something that is absolutely not supported by either. I don't know what spoilers you've been exposed to, but confine ALL discussion based on them to the spoiler forum from now on.

FOMW

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonmelfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/5/06 7:54 am

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#32
i asked before if i could use the offical description and preview for next week and drew my conclusion from that text and video, it was a guess.
edit: also you scratched all of it; interpretating that T. cleared the wallet part of his coma experience by abusing the paramedic and in the end letting him stand there like a thief and Tony behaving like a grand patron while he is spoofing the paramedic to overcome and clear his coma experience surely hasnt to do with a spoiler.
the second part was taken from what we can see in the preview for sunday.
assumed one believes in the good part of tony you could of course see it instead as an attempt of contacting or repeating the coma experience.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hrurusch>Hrurusch</A> at: 4/5/06 9:42 am

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#33
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>You do not agree, but I think he highly questioned (not rejected) Schwinn's "separate entities is only how we choose to perceive" them bit. He replied with "I didn't choose nothin'" and again later with "get outa here" or words to that effect.<hr></blockquote>

I think we will just have to agree to disagree here. I admit Tony was skeptical at the first mention of Schwinn's ideas, but he never rejected it.

In fact, it was in complete contrast to the Pastor's idea, IMO. Tony was skeptical of Schwinn's ideas at first, and then opened himself to them, where as he was at first open to the Pastor's ideas, and then closed himself to them.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I do have strong intuition that he will encounter another, far more sophisticated and effective agent of Christ down the road, one that will make a better advocate than the pastor from this ep. <hr></blockquote>

I definitely wouldn't rule that out. In fact, based on this one episode, I would say that pretty much has to happen, if Tony is to follow down any sort of Christian path.

I'm not so sure that he will, though. I'm not even so sure he will stick long with his spiritual soul searching, even.

After the first coma episode I was, very much, thinking more along your lines in that Tony was going to follow a spiritual path for the remainder of the show. But the way the last two episodes played out, I am starting to feel more and more like this is just going to be a short chapter in the series. I think things just moved more quickly than I would expect them to, if it was to be played out over the rest of the series.

My feeling now, is that the spirtuality is going to be prominent for a couple more shows, and will then be kind of on the backburner.

</p>

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#35
Moved From Another Thread
porkstorekiller

Civilian
Posts: 1
Posted: 4/4/06 2:23 pm
Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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Hey, new member, old sopranos fan.
Did anybody realize that the old man T makes friends with in the next room is the voice in the opening scene of the season. He is the voice that talks about the stages that the soul goes thru when you die. Just wondering if it has signifigance here. Also, he gets diagnosed with cancer in the larynx at the end of this episode. This diagnosis usually means that you will never be able to speak again, makes you think.


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Jason the Magnificent

Civilian
Posts: 16
Posted: 4/4/06 2:54 pm
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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No it wasn't. That was William S. Burroughs speaking and the guy that played Tony's friend was NOT William S. Burroughs


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Malenga

Civilian
Posts: 4
Posted: 4/4/06 3:07 pm
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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Quote:
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Did anybody realize that the old man T makes friends with in the next room is the voice in the opening scene of the season. He is the voice that talks about the stages that the soul goes thru when you die
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No, the "opening voice of the season" as you put it is none other than famous beat writer, expatriate ,and junkie: William Burroughs.
That definitely was not Hal Holbrooks voice and if it sounded like any actors voice, I would say it was Wilfred Brimley after 10 percocets.


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DarngoodCoffee

Associate
Posts: 99
Posted: 4/4/06 4:43 pm
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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MMMMMMMMMhhhmmmmm.....10 percocets....droool


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CaliberCutChops

Civilian
Posts: 33
Posted: 4/4/06 5:22 pm
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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It wasn't Hal Holbrook...but it would have been cool if it was. That would have been a nice discovery.


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MrTaste

Civilian
Posts: 29
Posted: 4/5/06 9:36 am
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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Posted: 4/4/06 5:22 pm
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
It wasn't Hal Holbrook...but it would have been cool if it was. That would have been a nice discovery.


...and if pigs had wings.. they would be flying over Satriales.. oh wait a minute... they are...


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LouisBrasiSleepswithFish

Civilian
Posts: 28
Posted: 4/5/06 10:05 am
Re: Relevance of Tony's scientist friend
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Ah yes pigs, wings, keeping with the Floyd, nice



</p>

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#36
As usual, there has been some good discussion here. I have stayed out of it partly because real life has taken over in the past week which leads to the second part - there was simply too much to think on in this episode to make any concrete assumptions about what may or may not be happening to Tony, and due to that real life, I have not had time to truly think on it.

The way I saw Tony's quandry was much as has been said - he was testing, if you will, certain aspects of philosophical and/or spiritual thinking to help him figure out what he may or may not recall from his coma period. He remembers enough to make him do so - of that, we can be sure. And he is trying to make some sense of it.

Everything else seems totally up in the air at present. That he ends the episode on some seeming realization seems much a typical cliffhanger than anything else. I must admit, my initial reaction Sunday night was to suggest that he would never last in such a state if he truly took any of this "learning" to heart.

Which made me start focusing on other aspects to help make some sense of it myself. Throughout the series, Tony has struggled with his relationship with his mother and how that has affected his life - his panic attacks. But as of late, we have seen a slight break-through with Melfi in that he begins to recognize his father may be just as much of an influence.

Certainly this episode has a few scenes that suggest that - the son seeing his father beat up, the movies/TV programs Tony watches, Kung Fu with a line of dialogue that mentions "father and son" and the movie which I believe is Hud in which Paul Newman's character deals with his own father issues.

Given the introduction of an "uncertainty principle" - I won't go into the specifics as it has been well discussed already - but suffice it to say, the idea that Tony may have no choice certainly plays into his following in his father's footsteps. And further, this entire "wind" concept - that he or everyone is "part of something bigger" - this speaks very much towards things he has said to Chris in the past and says to Paulie in this episode.

Is it possible that even with all of this that has happened to Tony, he still ends up thinking that his life is as it should be? That being in the mafia is entirely appropriate?

Many have been trying to find clues as to how Tony might find salvation - through Christ, his wife, the witness protection program, etc. - but perhaps he will come to the conclusion that his life is exactly what it should be.

There is no doubt that many of the mistakes he has made in the past come from thinking too much on an issue, or allowing issues to over-take him. His own uncertainty has been his downfall thus far. If he comes to the conclusion that his life is exactly as it should be, he could become more ruthless than ever, as a previous poster has suggested as a possibility. Or, he could reject this, thus setting up his ultimate tragedy of causing his own downfall due to his own lack of ability to overcome such uncertainty - truly Shakespearean and certainly a fitting end to the whole thing.

There were many great moments in this episode that might suggest one way or another that Tony might move or accept. But in the end, I don't trust that he will accept any of them. He acts like he will, and I found it entirely ironic that he tells Janice of his new life "being a gift" which she totally dismisses as she gets the car - his sister that is the consumate soul searcher, for whatever the reason or purpose. And further, Carm, all the sudden-like, has now made up with AJ and even goes as far as to suggest that Vito be watched - almost as if she plans to assist.

In the end, I think we are only seeing a brief glance at what Chase has in store. I have been reticent to get into this discussion or any other because I feel like I don't have enough to go on at present. We are seeing the fine brush strokes of a much larger painting. It is easy to appreciate such, no doubt. See Seurat's A Sunday Afternoon On The Island of Le Grande Jatte for proof. But when one backs up from that painting, it means so much more. And I don't think we will know any truth of this particular "painting" until we are able to back up and see it from a distance. Until then, it seems only a matter of admiring the fine brush strokes, as confusing as they may be to our unaware eyes (and minds.)

</p>

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#37
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Certainly this episode has a few scenes that suggest that - the son seeing his father beat up, the movies/TV programs Tony watches, Kung Fu with a line of dialogue that mentions "father and son" and the movie which I believe is Hud in which Paul Newman's character deals with his own father issues.<hr></blockquote>

Deft observations DH. I picked up these little nuggets as well when I watched the show, but was unable to succintly and coherently bind them together as you have.

</p>

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#38
Moved from another thread:

- - - - - - - - -

Posted by Observing Ego
Posted: 4/3/06 11:25 am
Tony's existential task..
.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger." ~F. Nietzsche

I am enjoying what may be an analytic-to-existential shift in terms of Tony's psychological work. Frankl as well as other existential "philosopher-analysts" felt that our task is to make meaning and find purpose in our lives, as opposed to resolving and deconstructing old impasse. This paradigm shift, I have to anticipate, will be not only emerge as fruitful, but also savored by Melfi, as this redirection in focus compliments and merges well with her analytically classic yet elastic frame.

There have been many hints at this philosophical direction in the first three episodes:identity search (in dream), question of spirituality as well as values orientation clarifications, etc. Near death experiences as Tony's often act as catalysts for just such "finding life's meaning" quests.

Ultimately Tony's meaning in life must emerge as his identification of his unique "purpose". I am wondering where he will locate his meaning: Love? Suffering? Or, work?

- - - - - - - - -

Posted by jayneezy
Posted: 4/3/06 12:05 pm
Re: Tony's existential task...


His next few sessions with Melfi should be interesting if he can explain anything further about the coma...

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=detectivehunt>Detective Hunt</A> at: 4/7/06 7:32 pm

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#39
Moved from another thread

billymac72261


Capo
Posts: 202
Posted: 4/2/06 8:56 pm
Continuation of the Wind Theme
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I've only seen the episode once, but am looking forward to seeing it many times again. On first viewing, it seems that the "wind" has a large significance to this episode.

The Ojibwe "wind" poem in Tony's room is a major focal point. We still don't know who put it there.

When Tony is discharged from the hospital, the sights of the outside world...life, and to a large extent, the blowing wind, bring him almost to tears it seemed to me.

And, at the end, when all of the wiseguys were in his house, eating their hearts out, Tony walked right past them and found comfort in the blowing wind by his poolside.....then a segue, through the wind to poor Jason Barone, who catches a beatin' from Paulie.

I am sure I missed other wind references in the episode, but it just seemed very significant to Tony's attempt to grapple with what he was, who he was, and what or who it is he should become now.

Edited by: billymac72261 at: 4/3/06 9:04 pm

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jayneezy

Associate
Posts: 97
Posted: 4/2/06 9:08 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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yea i liked the end with the wind.......reminded me alot of last week when he was coming out of the coma and the reunion.......each episode so has had a strong finish at the end......


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DarngoodCoffee

Associate
Posts: 83
Posted: 4/2/06 9:09 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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Don't forget about the massive streams of hot air being blown by both the old scientist guy and the new-age ministers.

I know, I know, that's for a different thread, I just couldn't help myself.


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EdaMaria

Civilian
Posts: 35
Posted: 4/2/06 9:14 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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the scientist talks about wind/tornadoes when talking physics during the boxing match.

and also, crude I know, but still on the 'wind' theme, the scientist jokes with Tony about 'cutting farts like sonic booms'


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Pork Store

Civilian
ezSupporter
Posts: 11
Posted: 4/2/06 10:19 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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Also add the wind effects in the ending song "One of These Days" by Pink Floyd. Strangly the song that follows "One of These Days" on Pink Floyd's Meddle is "Pillow of Winds."

FYI, if your wondering what that demonic voice is saying half way through the song. It's the drummer saying "One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little peices."


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MrTaste

Civilian
Posts: 20
Posted: 4/3/06 4:13 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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when tony walked out into the backyard.. was anyone else scanning the sky, as i was, for the ducks? the fact that we didn't see them, when we were expecting to perhaps, is another sign of the greatness of the sopranos... it's never what you think it's going to be, as can be clearly evidenced by all the speculation on these boards, very little of which turns out to be what's really happening.. the wind was, in my opinion, showing us that paulie and tony are both the same entity, as holbrook was positing.. tony swears that nothing will happen to barone, but the other part of him.. the uncontrollable violence of paulie, makes him a liar. as has been mentioned elsewhere about this weeks episode, paulie and tony are together for much of the time.. coincidence? no such thing on the sopranos.


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Paulie Walnuts

Civilian
Posts: 4
Posted: 4/3/06 4:56 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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100% of me thought for sure we would see the ducks return, so I completely agree. Where Chase is truly going only 4 episodes in is going to be awesome to see play out. I just wish we didn't have to wait a whole week in between episodes. But, the build-up is fun!

Pink Floyd at the end was great, very nice touch!


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brunogambia

Civilian
Posts: 2
Posted: 4/3/06 7:00 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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I think the final episode will have the ducks.


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TonyUncleAl

Civilian
Posts: 8
Posted: 4/3/06 7:04 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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I didn't look too deep into the wind in the symbolic sense, although it was clear that there was a meaning there.

I took it as an underscore to Tony's new carpe diem attitude; the wind was a pleasant reminder to Tony that he was alive, and experiencing God's green earth in all it's splendor. Cut to a seething, post asswhooping Paule, who considers the breeze an annoyance as it ruffles his silver wings.


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Mizmoon

Civilian
Posts: 17
Posted: 4/3/06 7:21 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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It reminds me of the Guns n Roses line "There's a heaven above you, baby."

The idea that we are all under the same sky, touched by the same wind, carried along by incomprehensible forces and all connected.

The monks said something about death meaning "no more you, no more me". The hospital guy was telling him that we're all made of the same energy. The Cathloics have a compatible idea called "The Holy Spirit".

We'll have to see where the wind carries us for the next few episodes.


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billymac72261


Capo
Posts: 220
Posted: 4/3/06 7:39 pm
Re: Continuation of the Wind Theme
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Just caught another "wind" reference....Carmella is walking Tony down the hospital hallway and she is called away to take a call from Dr. Taschland. She asks Tony if he can sit down (outside of Rapper Deluxe's room) and he replies..."yeah, I'm winded".





</p>

Re: Tony Belief Systems and random gibberish

#40
hello new member, been watching the sopranos since it started.

I noticed when tony admitted he was winded he would normally never admit any sign of weakness like that, eg when he had skin cancer he just said to carmella he hit his head on a cabinet. I think tony is slowly starting to become a bit more honest with himself and slightly more willing to admit his faults. maybe im totally off track here but thats what i thought about that scene.

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