Johnny Sac knows very well what Barone Sanitation means to Tony Soprano. He could have arranged something through Tony's captains, or he could have waited for the Tony-situation to resolve itself. But mob-life is about greed and power, not about responsible business practices. Johnny sees an opportunity to grab Tony's cover-business while Tony is out of commission, and he grabs it. I agree with CruiseJD that Tony's response to Phil will be perceived as "showing weakness," and will render Tony vulnerable in the eyes of the NY guys.

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im not sure if Johnny will be the case, i was doing some research and it seems that a RICO costs about million+, and Jr. said that is what it cost him. so even if it cost johnny more, he should be able to have that kind of cash. but i guess the problem is that if it cost a million he must be able to show where he got the money, there are ways around that but Johnny seems to be talking like his wife is living out of a trash can. but as far as his case goes i really hope he beats it, i really enjoy his character. and i would be pissed if he went out that way.

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Absolutely ... it will be interesting how this plays out.

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Phil is turning into a very interesting character. He's not the typical Sopranos villian IMHO. in this way, he's almost more potentially dangerous to Tony than people like Richie or Ralph,. Maybe as the season goes on I'll be proven wrong, but as of now he seems a lot like Tony, just on the NY side (and therefore, he doesn't get our sympathies)

Phil points:

1) in S5, he didn't want to give Tony money he owed Johnny Boy's mistress from decades ago (doesn't sound so unreasonable. i could see Tony taking same attitude if shoe on the other foot -and Tony didn't know the real situation, he jumped into it out of the blue. and Heshie didn't want to pay up either)

2) he's a jerk about getting the car fixed (big deal)

3) he threatens, then is behind the killing of Lorraine in S5, but at the order of Johnny Sac (and it's NY's business anyway) then he kills Angelo after Joey Peeps is killed (again, with Sac's OK/order ) THEN he goes berserk because Tony B kills his brother (who wouldn't be upset?) but unlike Tony B, Phil keeps his cool and waits to get permission from Sac before going on whacking spree ('how long do i gotta wait john?')

4) he says he has 'buried the hatchet' with NJ out of respect to Sac - and, at least so far, this seems to be true. Tony remarks on how 'old school' Phil is (similar to Tony) Phil agrees to pay $50,000 for Hesh's son-in-law without a big fuss.

5) phil appears to genuinely be passing along Tony's requests to Johnny and also honestly reporting back Johnny's responses (i could definitely see other people in this position taking advantage and passing along misinformation to stir up trouble) and when Sac goes on in latest episode about Tony's demands, Phil just stares at him - he doesn't seem to encourage him (constrast that with Mikey P. egging on Junior against Tony in S1)

6) phil obviously isn't a Tony/NJ fan and maybe is plotting with and egging on Vito ...but if so, he's only taking it so far. and he tells Vito that he 'can't think that way' when Vito talks about stiffing carmela on the money


phil: not so bad? a red herring character? or so evil that he's wreaking havoc behind the scenes in a way that even the audience doesn't know yet ... ?

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge ... daMaria</A> at: 4/3/06 7:04 pm

i agree about your 6th point, sounded as if they never had been that deep about conspirations before.unless phil said after the cut something like 'stay cool until we get em all'.
makes you wonder how dumb vito really is, maybe he is planning it all on his own.

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Good points about Phil, I have to agree. In fact, I’d say Phil is smarter the Tony. And a point I definitely want to make is that Phil IS old school – Tony wants to be. I’ve always felt that about Tony – he’s always going on about the virtues of being ‘old school’ and ‘the strong, silent type’ – but he’s not either one of those things.
It’s gonna be interesting for sure to see how this plays out, but I don’t think Phil is a red herring – he’s just smart, so he’s waiting for his chance, that’s why we haven’t seen him conniving yet. I really think Johnny Sak’s character has been a little underplayed thus far… I know he’s in jail, but I get the feeling he’ll play a major role in the near future. But that’s another topic…

One more thing though – about Vito. I’m constantly reading about Vita this and that, and… I don’t think he’s so bad. First of all, I really don’t think he’s being disloyal here. Yes, he has aspirations of being Boss – but that’s not an offence at all – and he’s fairly open about his aspirations and about trying to take a bigger role. Second, yes he’s connected well to Phil, but he has so far separated business from personal. From the past episodes, whenever there’s been a business discussion, Vito has gone against Phil and with Tony. And that doesn’t seem to be just for appearances either, isn’t Vito the point guy on the Esplanade project now? Which puts him and his earnings in direct conflict with NY and Phil. And as for him being gay – what’s Tony gonna do? Wack him for packin’ fudge? Tony sees a shrink… I don’t think an affinity for man meat is a hanging offence.
I think Vito’s a loyal, and even capable guy. Full of shite, but they all are... I'm very interested to see what happens, cuz I really think it could go either way with him.


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The major problem I have with Vito is that he is becoming more and more a direct threat to Tony's life. His power-play to become Boss while Tony was out was a clear indication of him being a possible threat to Tony.

Same thing with Furio, as much as I liked the guy, once he grabbed Tony and toyed with the idea of killing him - I wanted him out! lol.

Paulie, Silvio, Junior (pre-dementia) and Christopher no matter what they did to Tony indirectly or otherwise always came back and showed their genuine loyalty in one way or the other (regardless of their true reasons<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> )

Vito has ambition no doubt and that in of itself is not a bad thing in the mob BUT how you go about it makes all the difference in the world. As a Soprano fan, I don't want Tony to go down and any valid threat I see, we immediately want it to be resolved.

Vito is running his mouth and is clearly wanting Tony out of the picture because for some funny reason he believes he's next in line. Unless Vito smartens up and focuses on being captain - he too will be swimming with the fishes, hopefully, anyway.

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<blockquote>Quote:<hr>phil: not so bad? a red herring character? or so evil that he's wreaking havoc behind the scenes in a way that even the audience doesn't know yet ... ?<hr></blockquote>

Could Phil and Johnny (or Phil alone) be scheming to put Vito in Tony's place? Seems like with the Vito/Phil connection and Tony's soured relationship with Johnny that this would be a logical move. I don't think Phil respects the NJ "family" and would like to have more influence over it. I see Phil as a calculating old-school guy . . . he has some aces up his sleeve we haven't seen.

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<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I also find it a bit curious that Vito is constantly disappearing a lot and on the phone a lot.<hr></blockquote>

That's because Vito is a "weeble"

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>