Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#1
This bothered me at the time and still does to a degree. It's such an obvious point of contention that I am sure you have discussed it elsewhere. If so, my apologies. I'm referring to the coma sequence where Tony/ Finnerty is outside the house and is met by Tony B. We, the audience, clearly know him as Tony Blundetto, Tony's cousin. However, in the credits, he is referred to as simply "man". This must mean that although Steve Buscemi plays the role, in the coma he is NOT Tony B. Is this why Tony doesn't recognise him? I read in an interview where Steve was absolutely distraught when his character was killed off, thinking he would be around for another series. Is it possible Chase wanted to make it up to him and give him a cameo role? Or is there another reason I'm not seeing? Maybe the point is that in the coma Tony IS Finnerty and that's why he doesn't recognise him. If you all discussed this already maybe you could point me as to where it is. Thanks.

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#2
It was definitely discussed, but I can't remember where. Possibly in a thread called 'The Coma Dream' or something.

Anyway, I think the crux was that it wasn't 'Tony B' per se, but a representation of death.

It was mentioned that the old lady was supposed to represent Livia, and would have been played by Nancy Marchand, should she have been alive at that point.

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#3
Cheers for that Rich, that would be my general theory on it as well. The way he tries to take Tony's briefcase from him almost feels like it's his soul he wants. But it still begs the question as to why Steve Buscemi plays the role, you know? If he just represents death, or more particularly HELL in my opinion, surely any actor could do the part? I somehow can't escape the idea that although Tony doesn't recognise him, we, the viewer do and we know him as Tony B. to be dead. Maybe having a character we know to be dead inviting him into the house just emphasises the point to us. It could just as easily have been Ritchie, Ralphie or any other dead character.
Another take though just occurred to me and again if it has been covered, apologies. Maybe the "man", who we know to be Tony B. is Tony's guilty conscience at having killed his cousin? Almost like a Shakespearean ghost haunting Tony's subconscious . Don't forget there is only maybe five or so episodes between the death of Tony B. and his appearance in the coma. Of course, he would then have to be credited as "Tony B." and not just "man".

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#4
I think even more interesting is how Tony Brutally murdered him in real life and here is the victim trying to con him into dying. And remember Tony B saying to Tony in one eopisode how amazing Meadow is and then its Meadows voice that pulls him back. There has to be some symbology to it and I hope that Fly picks this ball up and runs.
[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"]You know, Vito called me “skip” the other day. Slip of the tongue, no doubt. But I noticed he didn’t correct himself.[/font][SIZE="1"][/SIZE]

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#6
There was something "other-worldly" about the coma dream that it was not surprising that Tony the salesman didn't consciously recognise Tony B his real world gangster cousin when he was outside the inn.

But within his sub-conscious he would have sensed that this was someone he knew. Remember Tony was racked with guilt over his cousin doing time for a job that he was supposed to have participated in. He spent his whole life denying this and probably contributed in part to his ongoing anxieties. Perhaps the "man" who is the other Tony was his guide to his inevitable fate. The door to the family reunion inn signified his passing from his conscious world. He was clearly afraid as he must of realised that the prospect of "nothingness" was on the other side.

Meadow's voice in the hospital ward somewhat postponed Tony's demise.

The fact that he was anticipating her arrival from another door, oblivious to a real immediate danger inside Holsten's suggests that his appointment with death finally arrived.

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#7
Maybe there is a link to the 'Two Tonys'.

In the same way Artie represents Tony's other life (if he hadn't gone into the mob), Tony B represents Tony S's bad luck/karmic side.

Example being, Tony had 'bad luck' with the timing of his blackout, yet it was that blackout that stopped him from going to prison with Tony B.

Is Tony B the unlucky representation of Tony S? Artie the good side of Tony S etc.

Maybe a lot of the characters represent character traits in Tony.

Not entirelt sure where I'm going with this!

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#8
conkom wrote:There was something "other-worldly" about the coma dream that it was not surprising that Tony the salesman didn't consciously recognise Tony B his real world gangster cousin when he was outside the inn.

But within his sub-conscious he would have sensed that this was someone he knew. Remember Tony was racked with guilt over his cousin doing time for a job that he was supposed to have participated in. He spent his whole life denying this and probably contributed in part to his ongoing anxieties. Perhaps the "man" who is the other Tony was his guide to his inevitable fate. The door to the family reunion inn signified his passing from his conscious world. He was clearly afraid as he must of realised that the prospect of "nothingness" was on the other side.

Meadow's voice in the hospital ward somewhat postponed Tony's demise.

The fact that he was anticipating her arrival from another door, oblivious to a real immediate danger inside Holsten's suggests that his appointment with death finally arrived.


Interesting that you use the words "other worldly". In an interview Chase says that he believed Tony actually "went somewhere else" and that it wasn't just a dream-sequence per se.

I said earlier that if the "man" character is a representation of death it could just as easily have been Ralphie or Ritchie or any other character we know to be dead but it occurred to me that Tony B. is the most recent murder victim of Tony's, at that point, so it makes sense that he would appear as the Grim Reaper. Added to the guilt of him being his cousin of course.
Having said that, I believe that in the coma Tony IS Finnerty, and this is why he doesn't recognise him. Because as Finnerty he doesn't know him. But his survival instincts tell him all he needs to know about the "man". He "didn't want to go there", as he later tells Phil when he is in hospital. This, with the stronger pull of Meadow's voice in the bushes/ by his bed-side in "real time", means he chooses life and comes out of the coma.

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#9
SilvioMancini wrote:I think even more interesting is how Tony Brutally murdered him in real life and here is the victim trying to con him into dying. And remember Tony B saying to Tony in one eopisode how amazing Meadow is and then its Meadows voice that pulls him back. There has to be some symbology to it and I hope that Fly picks this ball up and runs.


It's a good catch about Tony B. saying how amazing Meadow is. For me though, this was about Tony B. driving at the different outcomes of their respective daughters. I can't think of her name but we know his daughter ran away from home a few years earlier and hasn't been heard of since. This while her father was in prison and Tony was on the fast track to the big chair. Tony B. later says to Tony that "you're the one always bringing it up" or words to that effect. But clearly he holds deep resentment. Seeing how Meadow turned out in contrast to his own daughter merely brings home to him how their fortunes differed. Tony B. is intelligent enough to keep it to himself but he clearly seethes with "the injustice" of it, as he sees it.

Re: Why does Tony not recognise Tony B.?

#10
richjcrouch wrote:Maybe there is a link to the 'Two Tonys'.

In the same way Artie represents Tony's other life (if he hadn't gone into the mob), Tony B represents Tony S's bad luck/karmic side.

Example being, Tony had 'bad luck' with the timing of his blackout, yet it was that blackout that stopped him from going to prison with Tony B.

Is Tony B the unlucky representation of Tony S? Artie the good side of Tony S etc.

Maybe a lot of the characters represent character traits in Tony.

Not entirelt sure where I'm going with this!


Great call about Artie and Tony B!!

I too thought about the Two Tonys episode which opened season 5, although it was more of a reference to Tony S trying to convince Melfi that there was another softer side to him when he tried to "hit" on her.

Of course soon after that we meet the newly released Tony Blundetto who spent much of his life in prison.

But Artie is an important key to this because like you said he represents the other life Tony could have had. Artie also momentarily features in Tony's test dream in the car driven by Johnny Soprano that signalled for Tony what he needed to do about his cousin. Everybody else in the car was dead. It makes sense now why we see Artie.

Artie is weak-willed and naive. We can see that it was Charmaine Bucco that gave him direction in life and perhaps had Tony ended up with her instead of Carmella he might of been a precision optics salesman. She might have helped him see things more clearly. And like Melfi she was featured in his fantasy dream. (can I also digress here in say that Sarah Pallin looked more like Charmaine Bucco than Melfi).

There are some parallals with Tony B. When he came out of prison he looked like he was determined to be clean and pursue a respectable job and relationship. In the end he gambled away his money, chased his luck, and was drawn back into the life of a gangster. We know what happened to him.
Post Reply

Return to “Episode 6.03: Mayham”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron