Re: Tony Will Never Be the Same

#11
I am of two minds about it. On one hand, I want to see more of mob-boss Tony. But that really doesn't move the plot and thematic arch forward that Chase seems to want. I guess I am just scared of change after really falling in love with the character (despite his problems and moral ambiguity). But this is all happening for a reason, it is not just for ratings, it is to carry the story forward, so I will trust in Chase on this one. I am not looking forward to seeing a Junior-Tony, for the record I think he will recover for the most part. But this definitely sends a clear-cut message to Tony about what this life is doing to him.

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Re: Tony Will Never Be the Same

#12
I doubt Tony will flip. Not only is it highly unlikely Tony himself would choose go state's evidence, but the chances of the FBI striking a plea agreement with the head of a major crime family is unheard of. Tony is their target, feds try to roll up the people below the target so they can get the head honcho. It's a lot more likely that they would strike a deal with Johnny Sacks who is jail now to flip on Tony than vice versa.

A part of me wants to see Tony give it all up and go straight. But Chase isn't about happy endings, he is about reality and the reality is the Feds, as far as I know, have never struck any sort of deal with a head of crime family. Sammy the Bull was the highest ranking member ever to go states witness, and that was in order to roll up Gotti.

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Re: Tony Will Never Be the Same

#13
I'm also of two minds about this. On one hand I want to see more of the controlling, imposing mob boss that Tony can be. On the other hand I want to see Tony get out. I want him to be able to have a life more normal.

In the first episode I felt the tug for Gene too, when he was telling Tony how much it would mean to Deanne and the kids for Gene to be able to retire. The emotion that was put into that mirrors what I would like to see for Tony.

I'm really torn about this right now. Unfortunately I knew what was going to happen in 6.01 because of some jerkoff posting the spoiler in the title of their post, however 6.02 caught me completely unaware (the way I prefer to have my Sopranos episodes served up to me).

I definitely agree that Tony will not be the same. I just hope it isn't because he expires. I hope his journey through the underworld will help him realize what he needs to do to get out.


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brain-damaged tony

#14
fomw et al-

While it would be interesting to see Tony EVENTUALLY break out of the life... in my opinion, with 18 episodes left to go, that's way too soon.

What I could see happening is tony making a bigger effort to step away, but it (forgive me) pulls him back in. and then, try as he might, he's back to tony... at least through the rest of this season.

But either way, brain damaging Tony would be a bad choice. This is, after all, a TV show, and even though it runs on less formula than most, there is an audience... DC edges close to alienating large portions of his audience sometimes... fortunately, everything's so good it doesn't really matter. But if Tony becomes a vegetable... no reason to watch. This isn't like Nate dying on 6ftunder. Tony IS the show.

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Re: How do you think Melfi will fit into Tony's receovery?

#15
Question for Fly and others who enjoy the scenes involving Dr. Melfi:

Are you bothered at all at the prospect that, as evidenced by DC's scant use of her thus far, we could be looking at at least one more, if not several more episodes of Melfi-free Sopranos?

Dr. Melfi is not likely to make another appearance unless Tony survives, right? (Incidentally, I think Melfi's significance in this series is probably the best argument for a Tony Soprano survival). What, if any, role do you see Melfi playing in Tony's recovery?




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Re: brain-damaged tony

#16
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>While it would be interesting to see Tony EVENTUALLY break out of the life... in my opinion, with 18 episodes left to go, that's way too soon.<hr></blockquote>

Well, I trust implicitly in Chase's judgment about what he can and can't do to Tony and still have a series. We have yet to see if the forecast about brain damage was physician terrorism to put Meadow in her place for deigning to question the treatment he and others were dispensing. We have yet to see if the "degrees" Plepler spoke of wind up being mild brain damage. And we have yet to see if Tony experiences a genuine "miracle" recovery, an evental return to pre-shooting mental and physical health that his doctors will be totally unable to explain or understand. Any of those outcomes would certainly allow Tony to function on the show very ably.

Also, we've already seen scenes in the season previews that (barring some outrageous plot twist) tell us Tony is going to recover very well physically. And in sound bites in Melfi's office and other voice overs, he certainly sounds like he's not going to suffer the kind of severe brain damage that would affect speech or basic thinking ability. So I don't really fear we're getting a Tony that no one will recognize.

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Re: How do you think Melfi will fit into Tony's receovery?

#17
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Are you bothered at all at the prospect that, as evidenced by DC's scant use of her thus far, we could be looking at at least one more, if not several more episodes of Melfi-free Sopranos? . . . What, if any, role do you see Melfi playing in Tony's recovery?<hr></blockquote>

As long as the show is dealing with the stuff it's dealing with now re Tony, I won't miss Melfi too much. I think her involvement will be crucial once Tony achieves substantial physical recovery.

She's always been the closest thing he's had to a spiritual adviser. And if you buy into the maternal transference Tony experiences with her, and to Chase's stated position that Tony's experiment in psychotherapy is about an effort to "remother" himself, then she will have a vital role in changing his moral compass, if it in fact is to change. As I've argued before, that already started to happen in Two Tonys last year when she stepped out of her non-judgmental therapist's role to tell him she couldn't accept his moral defects.

She is obviously going to be the best guide he'll get for working through the purely psychological problems that continue to plague him. But I question whether she is up to guiding him on the serious spirtiual questions in his life. I don't know her own beliefs re God, but I wouldn't be surprised if she were an atheist or agnostic herself. And even if she isn't, she will probably feel out of place and incompetent to lead him very far on those kind of quests. I only hope she isn't so chauvanistic in her view of the importance or reach of psychotherapy that she thinks she can orchestrate a true character reformation in Tony without divine intervention. Her husband was absolutely right all those years ago that a man like Tony is beyond what psychotherapy can do.

There is that one season preview clip that shows Melfi in a grocery store. There's no way that scene is NOT her seeing Tony (or perhaps Carmela, at the outside) for the first time since the shooting. Her excitement was palpable, even in a fractional second clip.

Even if we don't get that scene of her for some time yet, I really think it's appropriate that we see her reaction in the next episode to the news of Tony's shooting. This woman couldn't help crying after she banished him from her life in season 2. She broke down uncontrollably when he finally agreed to move on to a behaviorist in season 3. And she was on the verge of tears, and was certainly very depressed, when he left therapy in season 4. She has a real compassion for this man despite her simultaneous revulsion to him. And I would expect his shooting -- at the hands of his demented uncle, no less -- to trigger some pretty deep emotions in her.

I think those emotions would be all the more poignant given the arms' length, non-personal interaction that psychotherapists are expected to maintain with their patients. She might, for example, clearly want to hug him the first time she sees him but will be unable to. It's that kind of subtext, that kind of unspoken dynamic that has made their relationship so compelling.

I used to say that the Sopranos was many things and, among them, I felt it was a very unconventional love triangle between Tony, Carmela, and Melfi. Carmela's jealousy of Melfi and the way they both betray subtle competitiveness, even resentment in their few scenes of interaction, fueled my views in this area.

But I think it would be entirely appropriate if Melfi were to call Tony's house and speak to Carmela to ask how he's doing. I can't imagine that THAT would constitute overstepping some doctor-patient boundary. Maybe Observing Ego can weigh in on this one.

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Re: Tony Will Never Be the Same

#18
I really think that David Chase would be crazy to kill or impair Tony this early in the final season. If he was to do that I think that the audience would just quit watching. Many more episodes like last night and I could really lose interest quick. I watch the Sopranos to see Tony. The rest of the cast is just there to make Tony have something to do. He is the Sopranos

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Re: Tony Will Never Be the Same

#19
if tony becomes religious im throwing out my TV.....seriously.

the bottom line is everyone always gets jazzed up about the symbolism in these dream sequences or whatever you wanna call this one. purgatory, limbo, etc

but when tony snaps out of this i'll bet my last two nickles that the first thing he says isn't "I NEED TO QUIT THE MAFIA....ITS ALL SO CLEAR NOW...I FOUND GOD....IVE BEEN WRONG ALL ALONG...CARMELLA I NEVER APPRICIATED YOU."




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