Well dsweeney- as to where i stand so far on the ending- i again would just tell you to read the hundreds of posts on the "Its All There" thread, as well as the thread about "the Lady or Tiger", or the "Scene-by-Scene analysis of final Episode 86" thread, etc. If something new comes up to advance or change my current take on the ending, you can be absolutely sure and confident that i will post on it!!

At the risk of incurring your wrath again Bada could I refer you to an early post of yours? In it you state you agree with most of Silman's arguments but that it still deosn't convince you that Tony is dead. What,then, is your take on the ten seconds of nothing and then silence during the final credits? Nobody who thinks Tony survived has offered any plausible explanation for this.I realise you have moved on from this but it is such a crucial point and like I say,those who believe Tony doesn't necessarily die have no other explanation for it.Again,cheers.

dsweeney wrote:At the risk of incurring your wrath again Bada could I refer you to an early post of yours? In it you state you agree with most of Silman's arguments but that it still deosn't convince you that Tony is dead. What,then, is your take on the ten seconds of nothing and then silence during the final credits? Nobody who thinks Tony survived has offered any plausible explanation for this.I realise you have moved on from this but it is such a crucial point and like I say,those who believe Tony doesn't necessarily die have no other explanation for it.Again,cheers.

some things 'go through the stomach'. if chase had gotten the full 60 or more seconds of black screen that he wanted, maybe some more people would have had intus/thought that tony died.it would have just been a bit more 'massive'.
i dont quite get though how chase did not make the episode a bit longer to have the long blackness and the credits.

Hi everyone just been reading many of the posts in this thread (which are a lot of fun for massive soprano fans I have to say!!) thought i'd add a little suggestion of my own.

Being a huge fan of the show i tend to listen to the commentaries on the DVD'S and the second to last episode (blue comet) has a commentary by steve van zandt and the guy who plays Carlo (incidently an ex NYPD cop in real life whos police partner was the terminator they busted out in series 2) they talk about the "read through" for the last episode and when they'd finished everyone sat there confused until someone asked why did you finish it like that? and chase replyed, I didn't want to show that crime does pay or doesn't pay. So I think any discussion about the end has to fashion that factor in.

I personally think the last episode shows that tony is doomed what ever, either he'll go to jail (90% chance of being indicted) or clipped by any number of people lining up to do it. Any way I am willing to be persuaded otherwise, but Chases comments have to be taken into account. Cheers

just a idea new to this forum ...the episode where tony was hot by junior was called members only...the jacket of the guy going in bathroom said members only

acitalianman13 wrote:just a idea new to this forum ...the episode where tony was hot by junior was called members only...the jacket of the guy going in bathroom said members only

Yes that's been brought up many times and I'm pretty sure there ae threads here that discussed that same topic.

Bought the series in January and just finished it.
I may be over simplifying this but here goes.
Serious tension in the diner then suddenly the crash cut, whoa! suddenly i get the feeling that i've been robbed.
Ten seconds of emtyness then the credits roll and i start to laugh. Over the next hour and a half at various stages i'm playing over the red herrings in my mind.

Here's my point. I have never watched the end of a series or film and still had it mulling over in my mind a couple of hours later, which makes me think that the final scene is an act of absolute genius even to the point of no music over the credits. (the music being superb through out)

I don't think there could have been a better ending......superb.

68blues wrote:Here's my point. I have never watched the end of a series or film and still had it mulling over in my mind a couple of hours later, which makes me think that the final scene is an act of absolute genius even to the point of no music over the credits.

A couple of hours? Some around these parts were thinking about it a couple of YEARS afterward.

Seriously, welcome to the forum.

The most likely ending, in my opinion, was that the audience was whacked. This can't really be disproved, and follows precisely what Bobby said on the fishing boat.
This leaves two questions. the first is whether Tony was killed by the M.O.G., or whether "life goes on," and Tony remains the same sociopathic degenerate monster, his wife remains a horrible woman, AJ continues to disappoint, and Meadow continues her reasonable success.
I think that there are valid arguments for both, but what I believe Chase wanted us to think is that Tony was likely killed then, and, before he was killed, his personality and actions were so that he would never change.
There are plenty of indications that Chase wants us to think Tony was whacked. The two African American men in the Holstens (representing the original failed assassins in Season One), the P.O.V. argument, the bathroom / Godfather reference, the fact that the M.O.G. does not order anything, or sit down for more than a minute, but simply eyes up Tony, and then enters the bathroom, probably for a position for a clear shot.
The Bobby speech on the boat (and its subsequent reflection in the penultimate episode) also strengthen this theory that Tony was likely shot in front of his horrible wife. There is also the fact that Tony has murdered, exploited, maimed, and ripped off hundreds of people, all of who have motive.
The theory that Tony lived on as his sociopathic self is also credible. However, I believe that Chase wanted to tell us that Tony will never change, and also kill him. Why not? The Journey song, in my eyes, says that Tony has chosen the life of a Boss, and he has lived it so long that he will never change. Then he is killed. An ending that he thought would happen (that, or jail). Chase has repeatedly made clear that these men almost always die in a brutal, undignified way (Tony B, Phil S, Vito S, Dickie M etc).
To summarize: The audience was whacked, as was Tony, who had chosen his path in life, knew the risks, and finally got his comeuppance, in front of his family, in the side of the head.
Just my 2 cents:)

It was an amazing ending, which deserves nothing but praise. People are still discussing it in depth years after it first viewed!