Re: The Big "Fuck You" Scenes - Tony, Carmella and Fly

#11
Splish, I'm greatly touched that you and others have expressed concern for how the recent episodes are affecting me.:wink: If that's not a tribute to how "real" this show is, I don't know what is.

But my recent down turn is entirely about the murder of Chris and its aftermath and what they both say about Tony. None of it is in any way concerned with the fights between Tony and Carmela, which were emotionally vicious but absolutely captivating to watch. And, again, 100% real.

I have no problem whatsoever reconciling those kinds of fights with a degree of love and interdependency that can still bind a marriage together. I grew up all my life watching such a marriage. One parent blaming the other's genetics for some undesired trait or taking credit for some desired one was fairly common place in my household, enough that it became a good-natured joke between me and my parents. Often when I desired to avoid personal responsibility for some failure or delinquency, I would blame it on a bad gene from whichever parent was nudging me to take some corrective action.

And I actually think I heard each of them, especially my mother, say things that seemed more cutting, more intentionally designed to injure than anything either Carmela or Tony said to each other in the two fights in question. My parents were married 38 years until my dad's death. Go figure.
Tony, his spirits crushed after b-lining to the fridge first thing in the morning: "Who ate the last piece of cake?"

Re: The Big "Fuck You" Scenes - Tony, Carmella and Fly

#12
Go figure, indeed.

It's funny the differences between meeting and knowing people in real life and meeting and knowing them over the internet.

The fights between Tony and Carmella affected me very much. I feel aghast when I watch them and they affect me on some level having something to do with my own family. I find them heartbreaking.

As to my own family, my father and mother would never fight or hardly even say a bad word in front of their kids. I am the oldest (a man) and have three yournger sisters.

But we kids always knew my mother was deeply disappointed in my father. He could never keep a job and he cared more about other people and their happiness than he did about his own family. If it wasn't for my mother getting and keeping a good job and buying a home, my parents would have wound up destitute in their old age.

Then, there's the fact that when my father did work, he worked as a travelling salesman and would typically stay away on a road trip for 4 weeks and be home for a few days. Certain events from my childhood made it abundantly clear that he would cheat on my mother while he was away.

So, although it was distressing to see you upset about Chris' death, I never felt the slightest twinge of bad feelings over that. I have no intention of killing anyone in real life, but given my "rooting interest" for Tony and the fact that he is a mob boss, I was proud of Tony - in his decisivness and his ability to spot an opportunity and take advantage of it, seemingly, in the blink of an eye.

So, go figure indeed. Although it may have seemed, on the surface, that we were on the same page, the truth is actually polar opposites in our reactions to Chris death and the aftermath and its effect on Tony and in the two fight scenes between Tony and Carmella and also, it seems, in the way our parents acted during our upbringing.

If there is any single lesson I will take away from The Sopranos, it is my constant amazement that different people can view the same events and come away with such wildly different opinions and even often polar opposite opinions as to the quality of the shows. I don't know if DC intended any of that, but I have heard it said by other producers, directors and actors that their job is to present the art and what people make of it is up to them. They do not want to see it after it is finished and they do not want to discuss it with people either.

Re: The Big "Fuck You" Scenes - Tony, Carmella and Fly

#13
It's not as farfetched as you might think, my parents have had some awful fights, much worse than the ones between Tony and Carmella, and yet they've never even entertained the idea of divorce(they also refer to their arguments as "discussions"), so it wasn't that unbelievable to me.

But yeah, Carm can be a real bitch at times(like telling A.J. he was nothing but a "cross to bear", really surprised he didn't bring that up in the family therapy session) and this time I was completely on Tony's side.

Re: The Big "Fuck You" Scenes - Tony, Carmella and Fly

#14
The fight in Second Coming is pretty brutal, but for my money the most cringe-worthy, violent, marriage-ruining kind of fight on the show was in Chasing It (especially the last one where the pottery is smashed and Tony says that, when he's gone, Carm can live in a garbage can for all he cares[!]). Also of course the fights in Whitecaps.

I've seen the ep a million times but I can't remember there being two Tony-Carm fights in the Second Coming, though... just the one where they argue about Tony/AJ's depression and the cause of it, which of them is to blame, and Carm throws her fancy new watch in Tony's face. What occurs in the other?
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