Re: Tony crying...

#11
Whoa another great post by Flyonmelfiswall......


I trust Silvio more than anybody, including Tony, in never becoming a rat for the government.

Sil, like paulie, hide their feelings as best as they can ......you guys remember when Silvio, in season 2, whacked Big Pussy, he went out for a second and his excuse was "sea sickness." Which I think is pretty obvious wasn't the case.

Even Paulie had a short scene where he is staring at the now dead friend of his--he was actually remorseful.



</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sodadrink>Soda drink</A> at: 3/31/04 3:23 am

Re: Tony crying...

#12
Tony?s crying hints to his earlier comment in season 4. Recall when talking with Melfi, he makes a comment about being a ?toxic person?. He knows people fear him, which works for business & family situations. But he realizes that others might never know that he can be a lovable guy.

When Sil stated that Feech was ?well liked? probably brought out the metaphorical schoolyard scenario: Feech the popular kid, everybody likes and picks for their team, while Tony is the unpopular kid and everybody rejects.

Just my thoughts!

Old Maid


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tony crying...

#13
All really good points made here.

A lot of my friends who watch the sopranos tell me that they love the show because of the violence and the "t&a" and such....which is good. But I find Tony's psychological state to be the most engaging part of the show. The fact that he still has these feelings of still being the chubby kid in the schoolyard who isn't mr. popular and how this effects his decisions....great stuff.

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Re: tony crying...AJ looking at Tony

#14
Mark86 - I read your post about Tony giving a strange look to AJ when he hesistated obeying his order to do his homework. First, I just thought it was one of those stone cold stares Tony gives when he wants something his way and he is about to explode if you don't do it. But shortly after, the look fades a little, AJ gets up and leaves, and Tony looks kinda shocked and confused. Perhaps almost the same look he had when he realized about Feech. Someone said this episode was interesting parallel of Carm's and AJ's relationship combined with Tony's and Feech's. I agree that Tony definitely was thinking about what his son is and could be, and I think it's also a possibility he saw the same disobedient attitude as Feech had to him. Then he realized about what he did with Feech.

Several times Tony has said AJ wouldn't be cut out for the life.
Why? Because he doesn't want the mob life for him? Or because he wants something better for his kid? Tony knows his life has a better chance of ending sooner than most, and perhaps he thinks AJ's might end sooner with the attitude he has. AJ questions Tony, which you don't do. For Tony, someone like Chris is perfect for the life, because he sees Chris as his obedient confidant sometimes. Honor, loyalty, etc....I'm rambling

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Silvio....AJ

#15
About Sil...remember when Feech tells the joke about the first Jewish accountant in Heaven? Silvio doesn't laugh. He sort of smiles, but not really. He doesn't respect or fear Feech...my take is that the man is true to the bone to Tony.

Before AJ finally heads upstairs to do his Spanish homework, he gives Tony a little smile. I think it's that smile that perturbs Tony. Everything Carmella said about AJ having Tony snookered, about how people relate to Tony not out of love but out of fear, or what they can get from him (business) is true--and he knows it. To a certain degree, this is even so with Carmella (back to the psychiatrist who said to give up the jewelry, the lifestyle, the cars, and to be true to herself and leave him and that life if it's immoral).

Is this to say that Carmela doesn't love her husband?
No--I think that she does love him. But when that love has worn thin over the years because of the deceit, the affairs, and the secrecy, the rings, the minks,
and the house accoutrements haven't hurt T's cause.



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Yeah!

#16
Bacala I agree, now I've seen it another time <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

The next scene with Tony after that 'aj stare' is when Ton' walks into the bing with that sad face.

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Tony and the crying thing

#17
"That scene where Tony told AJ to go upstairs and finish his spanish homework, AJ gave him a look, and Tony was shocked for some reason, he was almost crying again. You guys remember that?"

Tony was not "almost crying again" in that particular exchange. He was giving AJ a stone-cold look as in, "Get upstairs and do your homework NOW . . . and I mean business." Where do you get that he was almost crying?

As for Tony crying after asking, "Did I learn nothing from Richie Aprile"--where do you all get that he was crying because he realized no one really loved him? First of all, I think that's bullshit; while I'm sure his boys DO laugh a little excessively at his jokes out of a desire to kiss his ass, and while I'm sure he does cultivate a healthy degree of fear among his associates (any successful mobster must), I think it's bloody ridiculous to claim his boys--Sil, Paulie et. al.--feel no real affection for him personally. I find it similarly ridiculous to claim that Tony believes this. Remember, these are guys who, all through the series, have hung together not only in affairs of business, but also in the context of close, personal friendships. The characters outside of Tony's immediate, top-tier circle--i.e. everyone but Paulie, Silvio and Christopher--may not indeed like Tony personally very much; that I can buy. But Paulie, Sil and Chris? Nope. That I don't buy.

I don't understand how everyone on this board heard Tony say "Did I learn nothing from Richie Aprile?" in a conversation that was entirely about Feech LaManna's troublemaking, and then shed a couple of tears, and then conclude that Tony's tears came from a belief that nobody loved him? What kind of simpering pansy do we think our man Tony has become all of a sudden?

I think it's perfectly plain to see that the source of Tony's tears was the fact that he would have to get Feech LaManna, a man whom he admired and basically respected and to whom he felt great gratitude (for Feech's giving him and Jackie Aprile Sr. a pass after they robbed his card game all those years ago), out of the way, especially in so underhanded a manner. He was crying because of the tough choice that was forced on him--a choice between ruthlessly liquidating someone for whom he felt great personal affection and to whom he owed much, and having to deal with another Richie Aprile on his hands later on.

Imagine Tony Soprano, boo-hooing because "Nobody loves me!" Come on, guys!!!! Don't be ridiculous! As much as such a realization might have hurt Tony, it is manifestly NOT the type of thing he'd ever shed tears about--especially not in front of Silvio!!!

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Re: Tony and the crying thing

#18
Aalleyne:

I must disagree. Sure, Tony could have been thinking about the decision he would have to make about Feech. But the fact that Tony, in season 4, made the comment about being a ?toxic person? and the comment he made to Uncle Jun about why he doesn?t love him implies that he might have issues with how close people feel about him.

No, this does not reflect weakness. Tony is a very strong and capable guy, but even strong people have little issues that sometimes surface. He is only human and a multi-faceted character!

Old Maid


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Re: Tony and the crying thing

#19
aalleyne, again I agree and disagree. I don't deny that he felt some emotional conflict over having to get rid of a "legend", a revered guy from his father's generation that once gave him a pass (even though we've learned he probably had no choice BUT to give him a pass).

But you are giving much too short shrift, IMO, to the very substantial scenes in this episode that brought Tony to realize that he can't even be sure what his closest guys really feel about him. He seemed generally taken aback when Carmela told him that he didn't have REAL friends, just flunkies who kiss his butt because they're afraid of him. At first he didn't believe her. But when he tells the Boring 747 joke, a fairly lame joke by most standards, the laughter becomes unfathomably hysterical, and no one was laughing harder than Paulie, one of his supposed closest buds but someone the audience knows would sell him up the river under the right circumstances.

Also, I think you are mistaken about the exact point at which Tony teared up. It wasn't when he was talking about learning from the Richie Aprile thing. It was when Sil cautioned against the wisdom of whacking a man as well liked as Feech. Tony's response was something like, "That, too" or "I know", and it was at that point, after Carm's words had sunk in and been proved before his very eyes, that he started crying.

This motive behind the emotive, if you will, is further supported by Tony's later "I'm not running a popularity contest" declaration to Sil, said for a second time in the episode but this time with some obvious bitterness. That he was so defensively denying that he was interested in "popularity" (i.e., affection) is the very clue that he is hurt by the prospect he doesn't in fact have it.

As I've stated elsewhere, I really see Tony as being in a "love crisis", one that's been building since season 4, as OldMaid54 observed, but which has really emerged in the wake of Melfi's candid character critique. The signs of this crisis are all over, but none were more pointed than his flat out question to Uncle Jr. at the end of ep 3. Had this Feech matter not come in confluence with all the other stuff -- his rejection by Carmela, his rejection by Melfi, his intensified alienation from his sister, her charge that he's "reaped what he's sown", Carmela's seemingly valid charges about fake friends, and his apprehension that the uncle who once plotted his murder, at his core, has no real regard for him -- I doubt seriously Tony would have been moved to tears by Sil's unintentionally invidious comparison between Tony and Feech. But in the total context we have before us, it makes perfect sense to me.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonmelfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/1/04 7:46 pm

Artie

#20
Another interesting thing, I think, is when Carmela tells Tony he has no friends, and the first name he mentions is Artie. Does Tony really like or even love artie?

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